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Does writing given a 1c need to be a certain length?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by modgepodge, May 6, 2012.

  1. modgepodge

    modgepodge Occasional commenter

    ....ie, more than one sentence?!

    This is what is written:

    I went at the Lego LAb with trux we playd with them

    All letters correctly oriented bar the g in lego, and spaced correctly. This took the child 40mins to write, completely unaided, concentration is not his strong point! (he's y1, a young one)

    I don't use APP, but an alternative system based on the APP strands, and this comes out as a low 1c. He has produced a number of pieces of work at this level. His spelling is good, writing perfectly legible, obviously there are some grammatical things to work on (possible stemming from him being EAL) and full stops etc, though with a reminder he'd know where to out them. The biggest issue to me is his speed, he's so slow and rarely produces more than 1 sentence.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. helskie26

    helskie26 New commenter

    We use Ros Wilson criteria and for a 1C it says that there should be 3 short sentences that can be uncoded without the child's help.
    I would say that this child is almost a 1C but I would want a little bit more. However as spelling and plunctuation is good you might be able to justify it.
     
  3. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    The NC level grid we use for planning give the following for 1c.

    Writes simple words and phrases

    Composes a sentence orally and attempt to replicate it in writing.

    Shows some awareness of how full stops are used in writing or
    reading.

    Full stops may be used to mark the end of a line rather than a
    sentence.
    Writing is orientated correctly, (top to bottom, left to right).

    Some ideas may be linked by ?and?.
    Recognisable letters and simple words and phrases are used to convey
    meaning

    Writing may need to be mediated to be understood

    Begins to write in different forms; e.g. lists, captions, simple stories.
    Independent application of Phonics
    Phase 3
    ? Usually correct spelling of simple
    high-frequency words
    ? Phonetically plausible attempts at
    words with digraphs and double
    letters
    ? Sufficient number of recognisable
    words for writing to be readable,
    including, e.g. use of letter names
    to approximate syllables and words
    Independent application of Phonics
    Phase 4
    ? Usually segments and spells
    adjacent consonants for spelling

    ? Most letters correctly formed and
    orientated
    ? Spaces between words
    ? Upper and lower case
    sometimes distinguished

    Given your description this chappie is easily a 1c, you might want to have a look at 1b.

    Document can be found here:

    http://www.lancsngfl.ac.uk/nationalstrategy/literacy/index.php?category_id=151
     
  4. We use portsmouth and APP. If you had that piece and another 3 pieces of a similar nature - perhaps a shopping list, another recount and a sentence about a book, yes, it would be 1c.
    Then (VERY) simplified and in a nutshell:
    3 or 4 simple sentences each piece for 1b (punc still not essential)

    Use 'and' at more length for 1a and simple adjectives (red would do)

    You need 100 ish words to bridge into 2c, where you will also be using some full stops and capitals.
    xx
     
  5. I don't agree that you need 100 words ish to go to 2c. There isn't a length of piece of work, its what features it has and how it is written. We use APP and there is no mention of length.
     
  6. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I'd say for a 2c the work needs to be long enough to show an independent use of sentence punctuation, so one sentence isn't enough. But still no real defined length. As long as is long enough to make a judgement is all that is needed.
     
  7. I agree Minnie, but I don't know where all these specific lengths keep coming from! As you say, you need enough to make a judgement.
     
  8. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    Nor me, but they do.

    And as for the '3 sentences that can be read without the child's help' that is definitely not a 1c. Madness that anyone can make up criteria for levels and publish their own scheme and school use them to level children. The NC says writing captions and lists is enough...Ros Wilson is making a fortune by asking for something else.
     
  9. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I think part of the problem is that children in reception need to do more than write captions and lists to achieve points 8 and 9 of the profile so to expect less in KS1 seems a backward step.
     
  10. That was what the ISH was about :) Yes, I completely agree. Enough to demonstrate what they need to demonstrate - and it may not all be in one piece of work. ISH ISH ISH
     
  11. Yes, that does seem odd. Particularly when in the profile it is independent and in Level 1 it is with support!
     
  12. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    exactly
     
  13. modgepodge

    modgepodge Occasional commenter

    Interesting, levelling always gives so many different opinions! My scheme mentions lengths occasionally but it doesn't seem to be a big focus. The other big thing is if it can be read without mediation. The scheme says

    1b - writing is generally understood without mediation

    1a - ....must be more than 1 simple statement ( which makes me think I could award a 1c for what is written above)

    2c - can write with meaning in a series of simple sentences

    2,b - can write at length, a page of a4 or more, staying on the subject

    I would agree 3-4 sentences decodable by an adult seems like it'd be higher than a 1c
     
  14. I don't believe that is what Ros Wilson's criterion says well not from my reading of the criterion scale!


     
  15. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    or point 9 on the EYFS profile [​IMG]
     
  16. lillipad

    lillipad New commenter

    If that very short sentence = a 1c, i'd be interested to see what people are levelling as a 1b...
     
  17. modgepodge

    modgepodge Occasional commenter

    Yes but point 9 indicates level 1 (and sometimes 2?!) of the NC, it says that on the EYFS profile sheet. Therefore it's feasible that a child could get a 1c but still not be a point 9, no? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no expert on this EY stuff. This child left reception on point 3 for the literacy type strand, what would he have had to do for that?
     
  18. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    A child who leaves FS at a point 9 won't have taken a backwards step to be a 1c in year 1. They will have continued onwards and upwards to be a 2c, hopefully, by the end of the year.
     
  19. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I've not used Ros Wilson levels, but this poster seems to be doing so.
    And this is totally different to the NC 1c.
     
  20. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    not on the official document I'm afraid
    point 8
    Begins to form
    captions and simple
    sentences, sometimes
    using punctuation

    requires more than one simple sentence which can be read without the child's help
    point 9
    Communicates
    meaning through
    phrases and simple
    sentences with
    some consistency
    in punctuating
    sentences

    The child attempts writing
    in a variety of forms using
    an appropriate range of
    vocabulary.
    The text is
    readable, as words are
    either spelt correctly or
    are phonetically plausible.
    Letters are reasonably
    consistent in size and
    spacing between words is
    generally consistent.

    What is written makes
    sense and there is some
    consistency in the use of
    capital letters and full stops.
    The writing expresses
    and communicates ideas,
    thoughts and feelings,
    making imaginative use
    of words and expressions.
     

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