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Does Joe Dale et al live on planet earth???

Discussion in 'Modern foreign languages' started by delhaye, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    No, asisehace wrote 'bottom set year 8 style', referring to them as 'thick'. I dont think its right to sneer at students like that.
    If you think that's me having a bee in my bonnet, well I am glad I'm not as 'sophisticated' as you.

    Let's leave it at that.
  2. Dear Derekdalek,
    I was certainly not sneering. Once more, I referred to myself as thick and I said that Aligru would have to explain it very carefully "bottom set year 8 style". Are you telling me you do not differentiate accordingly when teaching lower ability groups? That is all I meant.
    I think you realise that but are to proud to admit otherwise.
    I don't regret saying any of the things I said in the post to which you you are referring, the only thing I regret is being deliberately misconstrued and misinterpreted by the likes of you.

    Let's leave it at that as well.
  3. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    Good grief, you dont like to be challenged do you?
    If you were saying that you were 'thick', then why even mention the need for a 'bottom set year 8 style' explanation?
    If you dont think that you need to regret referring to students as 'thick' then I am at a loss as to what to say to you.
    You sound like a *****. Not only that, but a patronising ***** into the bargain. Your post to aligru, post 46, illustrates it nicely.
  4. yes I am a big ***** derekdalek... the biggest ***** ever... what is that buzzing sound I can hear?[​IMG]
  5. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    I am glad you see sense [​IMG]
  6. thanks to you [​IMG]
  7. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    I aim to please
  8. Geekie

    Geekie Occasional commenter

    I teach lots of SEN too - I have an SEN GCSE group even. Yes they get negative press and I had to fight for them to be able to continue their language in KS4. They love Spanish and I love them (well, most of them) but that doesn't mean that in moments of desperation or wanting to let off steam I don't talk to colleagues about their lack of intellectual ability, and yes I might even use the word 'thick'. Hell, they even use That Word about themselves sometimes.
    So, derekdalek, as my Y10 SENs would say, take a chill pill and listen to what asisehace, a respected and learned contributor to these here pages, has to say, rather than getting all high and mighty and holier-than-thou about an insult that you perceive to have been made.
  9. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    As I said, I don't like it when students are described as being 'thick'. If you think its acceptable to do that, well I dont know what to say to you either.
    If you read the exchanges between asisehace and me you will see the dust had settled, quite amicably in fact.
    The fact that you feel the need now to berate me about expressing my opinion to asisehace about something he wrote and to point out how 'respected and learned' he is tells me you are a wee bit patronising yourself. Did you think I needed to be put in my place by another 'learned and respected' contributor like you?
  10. I do find it interesting how teachers perceive their roles and their relationships with students. I don't want to get into whether I work for or with my students. However, I would like to point out that the taxpayer should be considered a very important stakeholder. Given that they by and large fund education in the UK. We should take into consideration what they think the aims of State education should be about.
    On the other hand better not, given that a large minority of the UK taxpayers would have nothing to do Jonny Foreigner etc.
    derekdalek try not to worry about whether you have been insulted or not on this site. I was called "boring" and lacking "charisma" because I don't use Twitter/Facebook in my MFL lessons.
    Some argue that the TES site has a problem with cyber bullying. Therefore, they use other fora in order to discuss issues. I know of a couple of wonderful teachers who avoid this site because they find that threads very quickly escalate into heated arguments. It is a shame really.

  11. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    Hi delhaye,

    I have enjoyed the thread as it has been interesting to read the points of view.
    I am bowing out of it now as I have made my feelings plain. I dont think the exchanges have been heated, particularly in comparison to some of the threads on opinion. However, as I said, the dust had settled nicely between me and asisehace, so it's disappointing to see it being stirred up again.
    I wont say anything else as it's time to 'let it lie'!
  12. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    I've been posting here since 2004 and can say squarely that that is not a feature of this board, Derek. Step over to Opinion and you'll find folk winding eachother up all day long, but they are a particular group who are up for that sort of thing. The MFL board is primarily a more "transactional" board where advice, resources, information is shared and swapped. If people do avoid the site I would say they must be pretty lily-livered.
    This particular thread has been fairly heated at times, which I can understand as the status of ICT in different schools will vary. I would say that the best teachers will cherry pick the best of all approaches and create variety in their lessons. I have seen teachers, quite often the newer ones to the profession, lean upon ICT as a crutch. and in so doing limiting their range and repertoire of metodology and resources. I went to a borough-wide inset recently where a number of practitioners showed us things that worked for them in their classroom. The least effective was an ICT-based approach that was demonstrated, simply because the teacher was using it as a crutch in my estimation. I could think of numerous other ways of teaching the topic in question that would have allowed for greater participation on the part of the pupils. The thing that impressed me most was a technique for using flashcards to teach question words. Sometimes, less is more. That said, I am aware that there are most certainly uses of ICT that I am not expert in, and that could possibly serve me well were I able to access them.
    As for whether we work for our pupils or with them, we are free to choose our stance. Personally I interpret working <u>for</u> them as giving them even more status as Little Emperors than is good for them in this climate in which the stakeholder is king and in which teachers are beaten with metaphorical rods to get results. Does anyone else here ever see themsleves as the Princess in Rumplestiltskin - spin that straw into gold overnight or you die?
    But maybe that is just me. I prefer to consider that I work <u>with</u> them: any extra work out of hours I perceive as part of my contractual duty necessary to fulfil my successful funtioning as a teacher. We reap the rewards with the holidays we have, like now (yippee!). I work for my employer, the headteacher and governers of my school, not the pupils. I suppose it depends on whether the semantics or the syntax are the more important to the individual teacher. We will each have our personal interpretation.
  13. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    Sorry, Derek - that first point I was making about these boards should have been directed to Delhaye.
  14. Dear all,

    The dust has settle indeed. I hope we are all grown up enough (I include myself there) to avoid personal disqualifications.

    I&rsquo;d like to make two further points, the first one about the nature of forums (sometimes referred to as fora, even though we are not in ancient Rome) and other asynchronous means of Computer Mediated Communication and the second about the tone in this thread and the TES Forums in general.

    Asynchronous CMC is that which does not require both parties to be online simultaneously. Forums or blogs are good examples of this (as opposed to synchronous chats via MSN or Skype, for example). The nature of CMC is such that some affective factors which are taken for granted in ordinary discourse, such as tone of voice, facial expressions and body language, are absent. This often leads to misinterpreting and misunderstandings and is often the underlying cause of flaring in forums such as this one.

    One must also consider that, particularly on this MFL forum, many of the participants may not have English as their mother tongue. This requires understanding and sympathy from those participants willing to engage constructively whose native language is indeed English. It is therefore inadvisable to build a negative opinion of a posters motives or, indeed, personality or professionalism based on the back of one clumsily constructed sentence or perceived superior or disparaging tone which may have been completely absent in the posters original thinking.

    What follows is not directed at anyone in particular, it is certainly not my intention to offend anyone. It is simply a common term frequently used in forum discussions: What is a troll?

    According to the fountain of all wisdom, Wikipedia, a troll is:

    Let&rsquo;s take a look back at the title of this thread Does Joe Dale et al live on planet earth???
    You can see how this title can be taken personally by, well, Joe Dale, although I don&rsquo;t presume to speak for him, and by other teachers who felt alluded to and who have spent considerable time and resources developing professionally in order to integrate the effective use of technology in their lessons and have been rewarded with higher achieving and better motivated pupils. This is not to say, as some might immediately assume, that I use technology all the time, I don&rsquo;t. I only use it when it is appropriate. The rest of the time I just try to be the best teacher I can possibly be, not always succeeding, lamentably.

    So, I find it somewhat surprising that, in an earlier post, the author of this thread, which has such a (perceived) inflammatory title, might later bemoan the fact that this thread has become a heated discussion.
    In summary, this is the nature of forums and some are better than others at maintaining a tone which is conducive to good relations (I certainly am not one of these people, I could definetly do some more reflecting before I open my gob... call it latin temper if you will). On the other hand, it is important to keep a conversation lively so that posters return to share their views and opinions, this one is going on nine pages now! It is a fine line to tread.
  15. Geekie

    Geekie Occasional commenter

    If the cap fits, I'm happy to wear it !! [​IMG]

    What smoothnewt said is exactly right - over here on the MFL pages we are all friendly and tolerant people who do our best to help each other out as much as we can because of the difficult nature of our job. I for one don't like it when other contributors are attacked personally when all they are doing is trying to make a helpful contribution and was merely trying to calm stormy waters. I certainly didn't get the impression that the dust had settled - the latter comments appeared to have been made through gritted teeth ! [​IMG]
  16. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    I have to say you do look a bit "intense" in your avatar, asisehace!
  17. is that what it is? [​IMG]
  18. smoothnewt

    smoothnewt Star commenter

    I think it's the slight frown and the tightly-clenched shoulders that does it.[​IMG]
  19. derekdalek

    derekdalek New commenter

    "The dust has settle indeed. I hope we are all grown up enough (I include myself there) to avoid personal disqualifications."

    How much more do you need? Asisehace and I had a disagreement which we let go after a bit of discussion and banter (fair play to him btw). You were not "merely trying to calm stormy waters." You were trying to stir it up again, with your patronising comments to me.
    Like I said, I am going to let it lie. Have the last word if you want to, since it seems to mean so much to you.
  20. Geekie

    Geekie Occasional commenter

    If you don't want me to reply, derekdalek, then don't post things that are going to make me feel obliged to reply.
    I beg your pardon very very humbly for trying to explain my motives grovel grovel creep bow stoop crawl

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