Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.
Don't forget to look at the how to guide.
Discussion in 'Primary' started by imc, Jul 11, 2010.
Show me where it says that.
It's how all salaries are paid. Those of us who've worked in the private sector and got monthly salaries got paid regularly too, whether during the holidays or at work.
OP - you should have asked. Only a weak head would worry about setting him or herself up for future 'demands' and most heads would be able to weigh up the pros and cons of allowing you to go and what that would mean to you vs the cost of you not being in school vs the impact your absence might have had on yourself, the other staff and the pupils.
BTW, I am a normal teacher; sometimes I work hard, sometimes I don't, sometimes I work weekends, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I love my job, sometimes I hate it. I pretty much ALWAYS hate rude, arrognat and holier-than-thou people though
But people are claiming they only get 3 weeks' holiday a year. Nonsense - show me where it says that.
tsk! ... and you thought i was sarky, middlemarch
I can't get my breath, hbf.
Proposing the notion that you'd be a 'weak' head if you were concerned at the repercussions of allowing one teacher time off for a cheap holiday (because that's what this is about - it's not going to a funeral here) demonstrates a total lack of ability to see the big picture.
In reply to the original poster, if you have a non teaching partner can't they bring the family back and you fly back a day early? My wife get's more holiday than me so she is going a week before me this year.
I'm not sure if
anyone is arguing that it is a right (and don't intend re-reading the
whole thread to check up) ... we are arguing that it's at the discretion
of the headteacher. IF they think that circumstances ... individual
circumstances ... merit allowing it ... then they can choose to do so.
My impression of the original request for information was that she'd had
a, "hard", time of it and that this was a means by which she
could benefit her family without severe adverse consequences to her
finances. I don't say that it's right, but I think that the headteacher
can decide whether the advantages for this, "valued", member of staff
outweigh any detrimental aspects for the school. It does not
necessarily open the doors for everyone else to do so simply on the
basis of a cheap holiday.
I don't think that they are. I think that they are claiming that they only take 3 weeks holiday a year because they choose to work extra for themselves, the pupils, or workload pressures.
I'm currently on TES because I'm having a break from a workbook I'm writing for my school. (3rd week of our summer break) I simply don't have the time to do so within my contracted hours. I use up a great deal of my holidays to complete such work. I feel that it benefits those that I teach. I agree that this in my choice to do so. It's just that many teachers get fed up with the myth of long holidays with nothing to do. Depending on subject, effectiveness, and motivation, I'm sure that there are plenty of teachers that work little, if any of their holidays. I and many like me ... do.
A little bit like I'd suggest you were a weak teacher if you allowed a pupil to go to the toilet as she was on her period/another temporary non-life threatening situation but then worried you would have to let ALL children go to the toilet. Or you'd be a weak teacher if you rearranged someone's detention for any reason you thought was ok but then worried every child would want to rearrange.
You can say yes to someone for something, then no to someone else.
It wasn't a "cheap" holiday she was after, it was a 'cheaper' holiday. I really don't see the harm in asking. The worse case senario: the head says no.
74.4 A teacher employed full-time must be available to perform such
duties at such times and such places as may be specified by the head
teacher (or, where the teacher is not assigned to any one school, by
the employer or the head teacher of any school in which the teacher
may for the time being be required to work as such) for 1265 hours in
any school year, those hours to be allocated reasonably throughout
those days in the school year on which the teacher is required to be
available for work.
Surely therefore the headteacher has the final say. End of.
sorry, you sound really genuine and feel mean saying this but will anyway - you could just be like the rest of the world who only take holidays which can be afforded. If you cannot afford to go during the time available to you, then don't. Save for another time or do something less expensive.
I know it's a pain being told when we can have our hols but it's not that different for a lot of other workers (ie those in factories who rely on factory shut-down) who also end up paying through the nose and don't earn as much as we do.
that said, hope you have a wonderful holiday whereever and whenever you go. lots of people won't be going this year due to no money coming in.
One day off for having a specific day because of Pagan beliefs would not have fell into the school holiday calender. Cripes you are an arrogant, patronising so and so.
what amazes me is that we all go on about the amount of work we do and then we have the time to read all this tripe and to write comments on it...
Not all of us bang on about the amount of work that we do. We manage our time and know where to draw the line with regards to 'overtime'.
The working lots of hours after work/at the weekend is a bit of a naff point as well, as this isn't exclusive to teaching by any stretch! We get the extra holidays to 'make up for it' however, whereas others don't.
Not all of us can, "manage our time", and are sufficiently assertive to act even if we, "know where to draw the line". Not all of us have the same working environment that you have pinkflipflop ... work with similar colleagues, similar senior management, and have similar family responsibilities. Not all of us have the same workload imposition as you do, and in some circumstances, asserting oneself in defense of unfair practices, depending on the means, can prove to be detrimental ... not that it should remain unaddressed.
As for, "banging on about the amount of work that we do", and
... are you comparing like for like ? The workload and holiday comments seem to have derived from post 6 when Middlemarch made a (valid) point and others chose to debate it.
Wrong! Check your employment law. You are arguing that you are, in fact, a part-time seasonal worker!
On the matter of working hours and days: I am often involved in the recruitment of teachers. When they have come to teaching from other careers, I always ask what they found different in teaching. The commonest answers are:
a) Teachers moan about anything - even when it is an issue that doesn't really affect them - and it goes on and on and on and on ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
b) Teachers assume that they are the only people who work hard. Those coming from business backgrounds know that this is not so. In fact, at times, there are many who - literally - will have to work for 12 hours a day over extended periods, to meet a deadline (and sometimes round the clock when the deadline approaches) which, if they fail to meet, will lead to lower pay and / or loss of any promotion prospects and / or losing one's job completely.
Yes, teachers work hard and some (but by NO means all) extremely hard. But the job security is far, far higher than in many other occupations. Job security is worth a great deal - unfortunately even the poorest teachers have too much of it.
Very good points made there glimball (especially b)
I'm guessing that flawedparagon missed a 1 in front of the 3 when he/she typed the number of weeks holiday.
In Scotland, it's 195 days (39 school weeks) + 65 days holiday (equivalent to 13 weeks).
The salary is paid monthly.
Strangely enough, my actual experience is that point a) is almost universal regardless of job, and point b) is untrue. Teachers are aware of their own hard work and as easy targets find themselves frequently addressing other peoples misunderstanding of the reality that is teaching. They don't necessarily think that they are the only people who work hard ... they just get tired of hearing about the long holidays and easy time they have.
Of course many other people work as hard and harder. Many also work less diligently, under less stress and pressure.
This is an education forum. It's probable that the majority of posters are teachers ... hardly surprising that a lot of moaning goes on. I agree with your last paragraph glimball.
conjoined over t'internet me thinks?
I can certainly try my most-entertaining-poster friend, though I'm not sure I qualify since I haven't argued for the `right' to time off, nor do I think `niceness' is relevant. I do however think the HT should give the OP time off because people need to be worked with to ensure their best performance.
What happens when all the other staff want the days off? ...well....let's see...third time of asking you say..?
You explain that there is no `right' to time off as per pay and conditions doc...then you discuss why they want time off ...then you use your discretion ...then you get goodwill back - a lot more incidentally than if you act like someone who sees things simply in black and white, is obsessively rulebound and potentially is so inflexible that they drive slow on the driveway. does that help?