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Do you work in a NYCC maintained school?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by HopefulHeart, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. HopefulHeart

    HopefulHeart New commenter

    I want to raise awareness of North Yorkshire County Council’s policy of paying their teacher’s lower than the salary set by the Government. Teacher’s take it in trust that we are being paid accurately and fairly. North Yorkshire County Council refused to pass on an earlier pay recommendation (they got the 2.75% but not a previous one) and since then all teachers in maintained NYCC schools have been cumulatively acquiring a deficit which also affects their pensions. Unfortunately the teachers themselves do not know that they are victims of this scandal.

    Check your gross salary against the salary scale calculator on TES https://www.tes.com/jobs/careers-advice/pay-and-conditions/pay-scale-calculator-2019-20 no matter how small the difference - it is still a difference and you should be paid that.

    Unless more teachers know about it and take action, nothing can be done.

    Please contact Paul Busby Secretary of the NEU for North Yorkshire to confirm Paul.busby@neu.org.uk
    Or the NASWT regional office rc-yorksandhumb@mail.nasuwt.org.uk
  2. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    Schools have to pay within the pay range. That means that someone on the very bottom of a scale will get an increase as of right. But someone in the middle might not. Depends on the school's pay policy.
  3. Grefintec

    Grefintec New commenter

    But the bottom pay scale is not being paid by NYCC. They have set their own lower one and it goes across all of the payscales. The salary paid for mp1 in a maintained local authority school in NYCC should be the same as in Lancashire, or Cumbria but it isn’t, it is lower. Local authorities should pay national salary payscales. NYCC has chosen not to. That is what is being referred to here.
  4. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    Looking at their website their advertised bands of MPS looks like this, with my notes on difference with TES calculator:
    24,373 - 1 (Same)
    26,041 - 2 (£257 lower)
    28,133 - 3 (£280 lower)
    30,299 - 4 (£300 lower )
    32,686 - 5 ( £324 lower )
    35,971 - 6 (Same)

    So top and bottom bands conform with what is nationally agreed.
  5. Grefintec

    Grefintec New commenter

    My mistake as regards bottom and lower bands but still is lower for the ones in between which I feel is unfair and I would expect to be paid the national wage working in a maintained school. Plus it isn’t the school setting the salary it is the council
  6. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    I don't get your point about the "national wage" between the minimum and maximum. There are no national pay points between minimum and maximum for LA maintained schools. The "the salary set by the Government" - ie in STPCD - has a minimum and a maximum for the Main Pay Range and it appears that NYCC is paying those. So they are complying with STPCD. The government does not set any salaries between the maximum and the minimum, it's up to each governing body to decide those.

    I can't see where NYCC are setting the pay. Their model pay policy expressly states that it is a recommendation to school governing bodies. The LA is entitled to make recommendations. It's up the governors of each school whether to accept the recommendation or to decide to pay something different.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    strawbs likes this.
  7. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Star commenter

    That's interesting because as @HopefulHeart points out a lot of the teachers may not have realised and therefore are unaware. It does seem underhand if they have not been open about this. NYCC will employ their own advisors and specialist teachers who will be affected by this and although it's only £200-300 per teacher that soon adds up to quite a saving year on year as they are a large LA. I suppose it could be argued that the fact that the scales are on their website shows they have been open about it but there is a tinge of sneakiness and trying to keep it quiet.
    Why do the unions say they need more teachers to take action? The unions need to be informing the teachers what is going on and advising them and supporting them not just sitting back.
  8. HopefulHeart

    HopefulHeart New commenter

    This is my experience. I was an MPS2 teacher in Lancashire. Mid year I was offered and accepted a job in North Yorkshire. I was told that I would be on the same pay because I was working at the same level in a maintained local authority school. But it quite clearly is not the case.

    When you use the salary calculator on the TES it states 'The teacher pay scales listed apply to teachers employed by a local authority' . Which implies that in a maintained school I should get that salary. When I look at the pay scales on the NEU or NASUWT websites they state that if you are not being paid the salary for your pay scale speak to your union rep. The expectation this generates is that if you work in a maintained school you will get paid what is stated on the salary calculator for your MPS level.

    When I spoke to my Head about not being paid the salary as stated on the union website or the same as I was in Lancashire. They were astounded. I asked my union rep and was told:

    "Sadly, you are correct in that there is a shortfall of salary payments for teachers working in NYCC maintained schools. This was as a result of a previous year when the LA refused to pay the full increase. This is a year-on-tear deficit which will also impact on pensions. The cumulative loss for teachers will be significant over time."

    When it comes to being paid, my pay is set by NYCC. Even changing my MPS level has to be done centrally by NYCC. School pay me what NYCC tell them to pay me.
  9. HopefulHeart

    HopefulHeart New commenter

    In your reply you state that "It's up the governors of each school whether to accept the recommendation or to decide to pay something different." But speaking to the Governors they assumed that the pay recommendation from NYCC was the same as everywhere else, and that all teachers in maintained schools in the north of England would be being paid the same. Speaking to colleagues in other schools, their schools follow NYCC recommendation because no one has thought to question it. There is a school in Bradford whose school adopted NYCC policy for HR and their teachers were very angry about the change in pay and it was changed back to the national scales as per the union sites. But it was only because they noticed a drop in their salaries. If you have always worked in NYCC you would be blissfully unaware that you would get paid more across the border. After all, it doesn't state on the TES salary calculator *except for NYCC
  10. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Well, as I posted earlier, the fact is that LAs do not decide the pay scales in LA schools and haven't set teachers' pay for some 20+ years. NYCC clearly say they are making recommendations to governing bodies, not giving them instructions. If some governors and some teachers are unaware of this or don't understand teachers' pay then they haven't been paying attention for a very long time.

    There seems to be a lot of blame shifting going on here. The governing body is primarily to "blame" - although they have done nothing wrong - but while the governing body was deciding its Pay Policy for 2019-20

    --- What were your Staff Governors saying ? Why weren't they alerting staff?

    -- When the Pay Policy was sent to school unions and staff for Consultation what did staff and union reps say? Nothing?

    -- Your pay policy is required to have a 'pay grievance' procedure (or for it to be in the general grievance procedure). Why haven't unions in your school recommended a collective grievance over the governors' decision? If other staff won't support that why don't you bring a personal grievance?​

    Union pay scales are just their 'wish list', they aren't "national scales". They are no more "correct" than NYCC's recommendation is. It's not a matter of your governing body having to choose between union recommendation and NYCC recommendation, they don't have to follow either of them.

    Firstly it clearly states: "Based on the union-supported pay scales, which will not match all schools"

    Secondly it isn't TES's pay calculator. TES themselves didn't make it and aren't endorsing it. It's a helpful tool put together by another poster in the Resources section. The poster doesn't guarantee its accuracy. It's impossible for any pay calculator to be 100% accurate when every school in the country could theoretically decide a separate payscale.
    strawbs and ScienceGuy like this.

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