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Do you get to patrol the shops after school?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by harsh-but-fair, Dec 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM.

  1. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    A takeaway owner called the police after he says two teachers from a nearby school blocked pupils from going inside his entrance. Cotham School has had a policy of patrolling the streets around the school after lessons end for the day at 2.45pm. Students are banned from entering the various shops and businesses between the school and Stokes Croft until 3.15pm.

    This week, Cotham School’s business manager Allison Crossland told Bristol Live the teachers have the authority over what the pupils do, even after the end of the school day.

    She said the school was using powers given to schools in Michael Gove’s 2011 Education Act, which gives the authority over the conduct of pupils in certain circumstances outside the school gates and after the end of the school day.

    “We supervise the parade of shops there and all the way from the school to the bottom of Nine Tree Hill, it isn’t just these shops,” said Ms Crossland.


    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/takeaway-owner-calls-police-cotham-3593489

    Will you be out in your Hi-Viz tomorrow?
     
  2. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    How bizarre. Schools in England are just weird.
     
  3. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    I thought this was going to be the opposite, shops expecting teachers to patrol them and keep order, I am surprised it's happening. Leave them to their own devices and ignore the shop owners when they complain of shop lifting or rowdy behaviour as the kids are not the school responsibility out of the gates. I suspect they might change their tune.
     
    caress, lizziescat and needabreak like this.
  4. coffeekid

    coffeekid Star commenter

    Yep. This! :-D
     
    caress, colpee, Jamvic and 1 other person like this.
  5. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    That's Bristol for you - the only local authority to be enacting a ban on diesel powered vehicles whilst simultaneously ordering 64 new diesel vans ...
     
    Piscean1 and knitone like this.
  6. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    This used to happen in a popular London then flagship academy. A miserable neighbour who we had a boundary issue with decided to report a Nab who was spotted buying a drink (Mon alcoholic) in a local shop in uniform on a hot day on her way home from school (two bus rides and two half mile walks away) and it stayed on her school record till she left. That was the school renowned for discipline... Sometimes the wrong children for the wrong reasons get caught up in this because the rules are the rules... It serves to create a somewhat argumentative young person when rules appear unjust or unreasonable and one who would tend toward non conformity given half a chance later in life... Five years in a school jail can do that to children.
     
    Jamvic likes this.
  7. Jamvic

    Jamvic Lead commenter

    This is the kind of thing that I would never have been asked to undertake when I was still working. They would have been well aware that I would have refused to do it.

    Once the school day is over and the child has safely left the school grounds it’s up to the parents to make & enforce any rules about where their children are allowed to shop, or not shop as the case may be.
     
    agathamorse, nizebaby and needabreak like this.
  8. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    This isn't that unusual in my experience of inner London secondaries. Always an SLT responsibility - DHTs and AHTs - before anyone asks, never an expectation of classroom teachers.

    Schools don't have a duty to manage/monitor behaviour of pupils outside school but they do have the power to discipline for behaviour outside if it's sufficiently closely connected to the school that, eg, it damages school's reputation. ie in school uniform in the immediate area or travelling to/from.

    We've had SLT patrolling the streets around the school when we had safeguarding concerns about gang members grooming our girls and giving them a "lift home" in their cars :( And, back to OP's example, when local shopkeepers have complained about our pupils in uniform on their way to school shoplifting.
     
    agathamorse and needabreak like this.
  9. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    Well, in this instance the shopkeepers were complaining that the pupils weren't be allowed in to spend their money (with or without five finger discount) - but I take your point.
     
    agathamorse, Jamvic and needabreak like this.
  10. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Use to at my last school... a newsagent outside the site complained about ours shoplifting in gangs. Lots of police and parents etc.

    So we'd be out there telling them to get on site or to go home (Time of day dependant)...

    I also volunteered (long ago) at a school in Scotland where staff had to go out to "shoo away the dealers"... heads words... him and various teachers would go out and stand with police at specific spots to try and stop dealers approaching pupils
     
    agathamorse and Rott Weiler like this.
  11. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    Not only in London . My first school in the provinces did something similar. It was eventually withdrawn and then this...
     
  12. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Should have read non alcoholic, there's no way would I would have asked her to buy my alcohol apart from anything else she was underage. I thought that it was useful but to keep it on record as the sole negative thing a child did in their entire time at school was a tad harsh and more to do with school and than their patrols. That said thanks to all the teachers who do patrol to keep children safe, it's above and beyond but no doubt useful to child safety as others have pointed out.
     
  13. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    At my first school we used to walk to the gate and were expected to intervene if there was any trouble outside. Then the union got involved and warned us that once across the school boundary we had no more authority than any other member of the public and should we intervene in anything could find ourselves in trouble. So in future we stayed on the school side of the boundary. I have heard of schools where the teachers would get on the buses and travel one stop before getting off and walking back!
     
    needabreak and Jamvic like this.
  14. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    I thought that Union advise was only to do duties within the school grounds and at the gates (not outside the gates.
     
    agathamorse, Jamvic and caress like this.
  15. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter

    If a teacher was assaulted outside the school gates would he/she be covered by school insurance, I wonder.
     
  16. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    For SLT as well? Only our DHTs and AHTs do 'gate duty' anyway.
     
    needabreak likes this.
  17. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    See my post above. Once over the school boundary any authority you might have had disappears. You are just another member of Joe Public.
     
    Jamvic likes this.
  18. mothorchid

    mothorchid Star commenter

    Nearly thirty years ago, we had SLT who did this every afternoon, at the local shops. It was an inner city school, but not the worst in terms of discipline. SLT rarely had to take action - being there was seen as enough.
    In the next two schools I taught in, students largely travelled on contract buses, so there were no issues of that sort.
    Afternoon bus duty was a nightmare though...
     
  19. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Star commenter

    Pupils’ conduct outside the school gates – teachers’ powers What the law allows:

    23. Teachers have the power to discipline pupils for misbehaving outside of the school premises “to such an extent as is reasonable”7 – see paragraph 21.

    24. Maintained schools and Academies’ behaviour policies should set out what the school will do in response to non-criminal bad behaviour and bullying which occurs off the school premises and which is witnessed by a staff member or reported to the school, including the punishments that will be imposed on pupils.

    25. Subject to the behaviour policy, teachers may discipline pupils for: • misbehaviour when the pupil is: o taking part in any school-organised or school-related activity or o travelling to or from school or o wearing school uniform or o in some other way identifiable as a pupil at the school. • or misbehaviour at any time, whether or not the conditions above apply, that: o could have repercussions for the orderly running of the school or o poses a threat to another pupil or member of the public or o could adversely affect the reputation of the school.

    26. In all cases of misbehaviour the teacher can only discipline the pupil on school premises or elsewhere when the pupil is under the lawful control of the staff member.
     
  20. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Not so. Schools have the power to discipline pupils for their behaviour outside school premises [Education and Inspections Act 2006, s90 (2) (a)]
     

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