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Do you find that SATs levels and APP levels tally?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by gmp65, Jun 17, 2011.

  1. I don't think APP levels and what I know about SATs levels tally. What are your thoughts?
  2. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    The thing is everyone likes different ways of assessing. Although there would be many that like the Ros Wilson scheme there are those that feel it is too 'tick boxey'. By that I mean it encourages a very set way of writing.

    - Have I used a connective?
    - Have I used a WOW word?
    - Have I changed my opener?
    - Have I used new punctuation?
    While these are all good things to think about, many children get stuck in the habit of trying to do it to every sentence.
    As for APP and Sats. I find they usually match up fairy well. There will always be some difference with certain children as Sats are a one off, on the day test. Children might not like the subject of the writing etc.

  3. thehawk

    thehawk Occasional commenter

    of course they must match up. Education would be in chaos if they didn't.[​IMG]
  4. Anecdotally in my school, the situation seems to be that there are problems with both systems and we spend a great deal of time 'making' the grids match the SATS scores! We have been instructed that SATS, APP grids and our teacher assessments should largely 'match' (which means we have to make them match!)
    Never once have I used my grids to formatively assess a child. I used to fill them in, then found that 6 months later, when the kids did the SATS, they hadn't retained the stuff they'd learned when the grids were filled in, so we went back and 'undid' a lot of the 'greens'!! This ridiculous waste of time and effort continues to astound me.
    I suspect APP will go pretty soon anyway, but God knows what they'll replace it with.

  5. Yep! With you on that AND we have to make them at least resemble the National Average.
    Funny thing though. When we look at work sent back by SAT markers, their marks are often crazily out of line, e.g. work we wouldn't be allowed to give more than 2C (in APP or SAT) comes back as secure L3. Equally work we really rated at least a 5c - flow, vocabulary, content, grammar, spelling etc comes back secure 4 or lower. The best was equal marks for an SEN child and a Grammar school candidate.
  6. As an old hand at assessing work, I find I read a piece of writing, assess it in my head, then make the APP match my assessment. Occasionally I am surprised and change something but usually I can make the two tally up. I would hate to be an NQT doing APP for the first time - it's a minefield!
  7. thehawk

    thehawk Occasional commenter

    Is the fact that you could do it already, mean that you just "make it work" in your own head?

    WOuld less experienced teachers be able to do it in the same way?
  8. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    what a shame and disgrace that teacher have to alter the trut to meet sats levels.......1984 is certainly alive and well in schools!
    Its all the more a reason that SATs should go and teachers assess correctly!
  9. razziegyp

    razziegyp New commenter

    I'm horrified by the levels of error that are apparently acceptable in SATS marking, thus helping the results to be 'often crazily out of line' . Markers can be one mark out on every element of the two writing tasks, so five elements, five marks, nobody turns a hair, and that can be the difference between a 4C and a 4A......[​IMG]
  10. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Although with Sats having no sub-levels that wouldn't matter that much. The marking can really hurt though in making the difference between a 3-4 or a 4-5.
  11. razziegyp

    razziegyp New commenter

    It matters hugely to heads needing Value Added for RAISEonline. The results are converted to sublevels, given points and totalled - it's one of the first things Ofsted looks at.
  12. lardylegs

    lardylegs Occasional commenter

    We don't bother our asses about APP. So I guess we have a lot less worries than you.
  13. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    I didn't think schools had to use RAISEonline. I'm not trying to put your point down, just that I thought it was optional.
  14. razziegyp

    razziegyp New commenter

    If only Milgod! I think it means more in some counties than others, but down here it's the only thing that matters!
  15. We use APP throughout the school. For the most part mine match up well, in reading and maths especially - the writing, as someone has already said its a minefield - but I find it generally matches. My only problem is children do forget and when you think something is secure then a term later they seem to have forgotten it!

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