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Do many teachers move from indy to state?

Discussion in 'Independent' started by mollyhog, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    sabrinakat, I think that you are the exception and not the rule. Most teachers in the UK are finding themselves worse off these days, according to a recent TES article.
     
  2. modgepodge

    modgepodge Established commenter

    An 8% payrise would account for moving up 1 place on the scale I think? I have moved up th scale every year I have been in teaching - last year my old head tried to prevent it, but I fought and won. I’ve gone from m1 (£21k) to UPS1 (£37k) in just under 6 years, same as I would have without performance related pay. Most people I know have also gone up the scale every year. I’m talking in state schools as I haven’t been in independent schools long enough to know.

    Pay scales aren’t moving quickly enough in line with inflation, I’ll give you that - so UPS was probably £36k 6 years ago, which would have bought a lot more than my £37k does now. Therefore people who’ve been teaching years and years and are already on UPS3 (or whatever) aren’t getting much more each year.

    If people are meeting their PM targets and not being moved up, they should consult their schools pay policy and if they believe they should have moved up, they should get their union involved and challenge it. If they’re performing well and not getting a pay rise and the policy says that’s fine, they should consider moving schools. There are plenty of schools out there who are moving people up th scale.
     
  3. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Reading one article isn't likely to give you an accurate picture of independent schools in the UK and their pay structure/policies.

    Even in my little prep school, all staff, including NQTs, earn significantly more than the national average and get a pay rise every year. Given we are at the lower end of financial security, the general picture should be pretty decent.

    Mind you, pay isn't the main reason to stay in independent schools!
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  4. SiriusB

    SiriusB New commenter

    Not everyone has the option to go to an international school. It might be because the subject one teaches is only taught in very few international schools, or because of partners who aren't teachers and can't easily relocate... So, as ideal as you make it sound, the hippo, unfortunately it isn't always an option.
     
  5. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    If it is the case that the teachers at most private schools in the UK are getting pay rises above the rate of inflation, then that is very good news for anyone thinking of teaching in the independent sector.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  6. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I doubt there is enough data around to make this assertion believable or not.
    Most teachers in the state sector earn above the national average and most got a pay rise, either through moving up a pay scale or because teachers got a 1% pay rise or both.
    The picture is nothing like as dire as you are portraying, though is possibly not as rosy as it was when you left the country 20 years ago.
    Don't believe everything you read in the papers, not even the TES. And definitely don't look on TES boards for an accurate, unbiased picture of the profession.
     
    JohnJCazorla and sabrinakat like this.
  7. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    If you read the overseas board on here, it isn't all perfect abroad either. There are hideous schools and excellent in all countries and poor working practices as well as excellent ones all over the world.
     
  8. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Yeh, but its easy to avoid those bad places once you know what you are doing. Countries like Spain, or the whole of the Middle East are notorious on the international circuit for terrible schools. In general i would advise to avoid British schools.
    Since i left Spain i have NEVER earnt as little as a UK teacher, plus i get a huge amount of benefits thrown in on top of my tax free salary, like medical, free flights, accommodation etc. Where i am now i earn significantly more than any classroom teacher in the UK.....and i mean seriously more. I also teach smaller classes, with nice students. Amazing resources, and i have more holidays.

    Sorry, but the UK can not compare.....nothing will drag me back to the UK.....EVER
     
  9. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Compared to state schools, this may well be true. Compared to independent, it may not.

    The cost of living may affect how useful these higher salaries are, if they actually exist.
    Smaller classes? I only have around 12 in my classes, can't for the life of me see how a school could be sustainable with even fewer.
    More holidays? I only teach for around 35 weeks a year, and many independents have far more holiday than we do.

    Hmmmm
    Not saying teaching abroad can't be fab...I'm sure it can. But teaching in England can be fab as well.
     
  10. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Unless you are earning north of £120 000 (pre tax) then i dont think we are on the same page. My total monthly outgoings in one of the worlds most expensive cities is around £200.... thats TOTAL outgoings.

    Comtact days 172, plus 6 PD days. Largest class ever taught internationally was 24, smallest was 8. I know of some teachers who have had 1 student in a class.
     
  11. JL48

    JL48 Star commenter

    Shhhh. Stop telling everyone!
     
    dumbbells66 likes this.
  12. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Damn, sorry... i forgot about the secret ;);););)
     
  13. Alldone

    Alldone Senior commenter

    I can see both @dumbbells66 and @caterpillartobutterfly points of view. My last 28 years were spent in a very pleasant Indie school in the UK. I taught pretty small classes and can honestly say I never felt stressed. I also worked for 5 years in the Middle East before teaching, so know how good financially that can be. I was paid quite silly money in the Chemical Industry. I can even beat @dumbbells66 outgoings - I had none. Everything was put on a company Amex card. Was paid in cash for 4 return business class flights to Chicago each year - this was enough to buy economy round the world trips. So working abroad can be financially great and if you are lucky you can also have an enjoyable career in the UK. One thing though - how long do you want to spend overseas and what do you do with all the money? I sometimes think if I had done a couple of more years I could have retired in my thirties - some of my friends did just that.
     
  14. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Jesus...im never going back...why the hell would i :)
     
    Alldone likes this.
  15. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I have a friend who retired in his 30s (from some kind of IT type silly money thing). He hates it now as all the rest of us still work and he has not a lot to do. All the fab day time activities are used by people 20+ years older than he is. He loved it for the first few years, but 15 years in and he is less happy now. I love the idea of retiring (who doesn't?) but 40+ more years of life seems an awfully long time to be retired.

    I'm sure working abroad can be fab, for those who want to do it and get lucky with their schools.
    But I object to them telling the world that teaching in the UK is terrible and that what they have read in the papers is clearly totally factual and true for every single school in the UK. Teaching in England can also be amazing, I've done it for over 20 years, mostly in state schools, and only one of those years was horrific.
     
  16. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    I did it for 3 and thought it was bloody awful...thats why i left....not looked back since.

    I take it you dont earn anywhere near £120 000 a year then @caterpillartobutterfly because you havent mentioned it yet ;)
     
  17. Alldone

    Alldone Senior commenter

    Have to agree. When I came back from the Middle East I was not sure what to do - in my early thirty's and not even knowing where I wanted to live. My parents wanted me to come to England and retire (or do part time work), my US company wanted me to continue working for them in the States or in the far East and my fiance wanted me to move to Thailand and retire in that country while she ran her business. In the end I am glad I came back to the UK. One of the nice things about not having to worry about money was knowing that if I wanted to stop teaching at any time I could do so. But I guess I was fortunate that the school was great and that I enjoyed being there.
     
  18. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Nope. But I'd much rather live in England and earn half what you do, than live and work in Angola.
    So horses for courses.
     
    Alldone likes this.
  19. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    You are right, horses for couses.....
    I was in London over a week ago as my transfer flight got delayed. It took me all of 30 seconds to remember all the reasons i left that terrible country, and be thankfull for everything i have now. I would honestly live and work anywhere else than the UK again.... well, not Spain.... god awful place to work.

    Happy new year:)
     
  20. WelshMags

    WelshMags New commenter

    Hi,
    Can you tell me what's bad about working in Spain? I've only got a few years left in teaching and we have a second home there so quite fancy the experience.
     

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