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Do all your class make 3 sublevels progress?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by teslagirls1, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. So you're expected to add value to the tune of an extra 1/3 of a level evey other year for every child! That would be some value added!
    I work in an 'outstanding' school, we work hard, our results are good: both in terms of attainment and value added.
    I would feel very stressed if all my targets were inflated in this way.
  2. This has been the expectation of all 3 schools I've worked in so far, is this not the norm then?
  3. Not the case in mine, have friends working at other schools locally that also don't create targets like this. Beyond that I don't know, hopefully others will post. Will be interesting to find out!
  4. Ramjam

    Ramjam New commenter

    Huuray! This year, for the first time, we have been told that we can disregard the FS profile results when target setting for literacy and maths at the end of KS1.
    We will assess against KS1 levels via APP about the end of September ( or later for those children who come in still on the EYFS and target set from those results. Hopefully, this will mean that children have more realistic targets ( we were supposed to get over 50% children to level 3 this year, so you can imagine what failures we feel ) I looked at the EYFS assessment scale points, and observed some children achieve some of them in the reception class. The best one was this Scale point 9
    Reads books of own
    choice with some
    fluency and accuracy.
    Child confidently chose several books to share with me. They had only a few words in, and he was obviously familiar with them. He 'read' them beautifully, obviously enjoyed them and pointed out lots of interesting features to me. I showed him some other books from the reception box and asked him to help me read them which he was happy to do, but even some of the words he had confidently 'read' in his choice went unrecognised. Nevertheless, he had met the scale point.
    He was a happy, confident child, who will probably go on to do well, but I am really pleased that his SP9 doesn't mean he automatically has to get L3 by the end of Y2 - that would be 7 sublevels in 2 years.
  5. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    I awarded this scale point to a number of my class last year ...
    We also used the 2009 SAT paper where they achieved a 2C (externally moderated) so only 4 sub levels in two years to achieve that level 3!
  6. tangerinecat

    tangerinecat New commenter

    I do wish people in management / government would realise children don't always progress in a linear way. I hate the way teachers get beaten with a metaphorical stick when Little Johnny has only made one sub-level progress in Literacy / Numeracy. Perhaps he has - but perhaps he has also been learning about divorce / friendship issues / health that particular year?
    Not to mention (in my last school this was the case) teachers saying that so-and-so has increased 2 sub-levels this year to make themselves look good / avoid a b0llocking from HT meaning by the time the child gets to Year 6 (which was my year group) the level the child is purported to be at doesn't match where they actually are...
  7. teacherman2

    teacherman2 New commenter

    Absolutely correct. I completely agree with you tangerinecat. Nicely put!
  8. I agree ( I'm also a Yr 6 teacher!) The effect is cummulative so last September I had children enter my class on levels I knew were completly unrealistic. I assessed them again in October. In most cases the children were 2, often 3, sublevels below where I had been told they were. I therefore had to make up to 5 sublevels progress in one year, just to catch up to where in theory they should be!
  9. tangerinecat

    tangerinecat New commenter

    And it looks like they've regressed whilst in your care! [​IMG]
  10. All any teacher *has* to do is show progress against the National Curriculum attainment targets for each area.
    Sublevels do not exist in the National Curriculum.
    They have been conjured up by LEAs.
    So, what you are being asked for is 1 National curriculum level progress in one school year. Clearly ridiculous and whoever is suggesting this to you so go away and inform themselves more adequately before inflicting such rubbish.

  11. Ramjam

    Ramjam New commenter

    I'm not arguing that he didn't deserve point 9, just that it doesn't necessarily correlate to a KS1 level and thank heavens, it has finally been acknowledged that it doesn't need to. You have just said you levelled them by NC Sat levels with a SAT paper.
    We have 2 FS children this year, 1 who can read AND write at SAT level, and one who can read at that level, but would need a scribe to write the answer. Those aren't the children that cause the problems. I'm interested in the external moderation - where did you have to send the papers? Do you have to send all your Reception marking? Is this peculiar to you LEA?
  12. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    No I had a group of children last year who I considered unusual and I asked an independent literacy advisor to have a look at their work just for my own information. I wouldn't routinely test reception children like this and only the ones who wanted to do the paper completed it (3 had older brothers and asked if they could do them too )
    but if he has been awarded scale point 9 he
    should be working within NC levels with or without direct correlation.
    has always been acknowledged that there is no direct link but some
    heads and LAs fail to get the message

    This is the
    information provided to heads by the NAHT

    Early Years Foundation Stage Profile (EYFSP) is a way of summing up each
    child`s development and learning achievement at the end of the
    Foundation Stage. It is based on ongoing observation and assessments in
    all 6 areas of learning and development. Its primary purpose is to
    provide Year I practitioners with reliable and accurate information
    about each child`s level of development at the end of the foundation
    stage. It is manifestly not a mechanism for outside bodies (LAs,
    SIPs, Ofsted) to use as a stick to berate a school`s performance or
    target setting procedures.
    It is therefore the use to which some
    outside bodies use such recorded information that is challenged.

    The FSP is for organising children`s learning, not target setting.The

    forthcoming NAA Report will recommend training for all stakeholders,
    particularly in the inappropriate use of profile data. There will also
    be inter-LA moderation conferences. (NAHT has asked for schools to be
    included in these).
    and this from the NAA sent to all LAs (2004/5)
    Foundation Stage Profile Data and The
    National Curriculum

    Some important points to bear in mind:-

    1. There is no equivalence between FSP scale points and NC levels or
    average point


    2. There is no reliable, statistical correlation between FSP attainment
    and NC KSI

    attainment. Therefore, schools should be extremely cautious about using
    FSP data to

    make firm predictions about children’s attainment at the end of KSI.
    However, there

    are clearly connections between them which can give schools an
    indication of likely

    progress. A child scoring 6 points across the 6 areas of learning and
    development is

    likely to achieve level 2B, just as a child scoring 8 points across the 6
    areas of learning

    should be able to achieve a level 3. Much of course will also depend
    upon variables in

    children’s development, expectations, differentiation and the quality of
    KSI provision.

    The curriculum may be different in KSI but the pedagogy should remain

    ie active learning based on meaningful, first hand experiences.
  13. forestje

    forestje New commenter

    Try being in Year 3 when the results are looked at and compared with the previous year's results. Have learned not to get het up about it.
  14. jojoincharge

    jojoincharge New commenter

    3 sub levels is not the expected progress for children working at age related expectations within one year. It may have been identifed as an aspirational target for some children who are severely underperforming and have the capacity to make progress.
    The tracker sheets on the devon LA website have really helped me secure the notion of what is age related expectation at the beginning of a year and what progress looks like over the year and where a child should be by the end of a year. There is guidance on how to use these sheets too - most schools in devon use them and as teachers we have a common understanding of progress and pace.

    here is the direct link - the colours of the traffic light system visually makes it very easy to see who is where. Free to download and with supporting guidance on how to use

  15. GeraldineB

    GeraldineB New commenter

    Some of mine have, some of mine haven't, some have progressed a bit more. I try not to give too much credence to this. I feel like some of my children have made MASSIVE progress in terms of their ability/ desire to work independently (from having to have worked dragged out of them at the beginning of the year to telling me to go away because they want to do it by themselves now). But in terms of sub-levels, these children have only progressed one or two.Nobody cares about that sort of progress because it can't be measured by a test and be given a result! You're not a bad teacher! x
  16. Hi,
    No, not all children make this level of progress. The levels we are expected to get children to at various stages are, on the whole, unrealistic. I'm a year 5/6 teacher and have been told that my targets for some children are 5+ sublevels, I know that with the best will in the world these targets cannot be achieved. My name is not Jesus and I don't perform miracles, just try my best and help children to achieve the best they can. It's no wonder teachers are made to feel rubbish and are demoralised. We all do at our school
    Yr 5/6 teacher
  17. Kelloggs

    Kelloggs New commenter

    I am heartily fed up of the notion that children are little machines who churn out at a set level and a fixed rate! Teachers input the data and the child spurts it out ready for the league tables. When are the powers that be going to accept that children (and teachers) are HUMAN and we vary with our output depending on a whole variety of factors?
  18. YEY! Go Kelloggs! Someone who speaks sense on targets and levels!! From another heartily fed up colleague who leaves staff bewildered that I don't actually know what 'levels' the children in my class are and am <u>proud</u> to admit it! I can tell you what they like to read, how they write best and what areas of maths they need to work on to progress. That's what it should be about isn't it???
  19. New at my school this year were "Progress meetings" in which any child who had not made the required 3 sub levels progress (I teach Year 2) was inquired upon very rigorously. Why not? What had been tried? etc etc.
    Then there are the level 3 writers. Earlier this term we were castigated for only having 10%. Why the drop? etc etc. When by vast amounts of work and effort by all parties this was increased to 23% (Externally moderated so it musr be true) we were quizzed about how much supporting evidence we could produce and moaned at by Year 6 teachers who complain that getting level 5s out of them will be harder. As many previous people have said these are not tins of peas, they are children, some still only6, with complicated lives out of school.Departing fathers, split families, illness, bereavement. And yet the"one size fits all" approach is expected. The assessment- mad education system we are working in seems to expect no deviation. How can this be fair. And don't get me started on levelling foundation subjects. Madness!
  20. Hiya,

    Children should make 2 WHOLE level progress from yr2 to yr 6 (so, if a 2a in yr 2 they should be 4a at end of yr 6) Our school track that from year 2 to year 4, one WHOLE level has been made (2a in yr 2 - 3a in yr 4.) Therefore, each year children should make, 1 and a half sublevel progress each year to stay on track. Ideally we like a 2 sublevel progress and we are a high achieving school. Its ridiculous to think they should make 3 sublevels in one year esp in yr 2!

    Its all about results! Shame!


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