1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Do all your class make 3 sublevels progress?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by teslagirls1, Jun 12, 2010.

  1. teslagirls1

    teslagirls1 New commenter

    Hi,
    I am a year 2 teacher and my class have recently completed their SATS. The expectation at our school seems to be that all of the children should have made at least 3 sublevels of progress since when they joined me in September.Not all of my class have achieved this. Do all your children make this much progress in year 2 (apart from those who are SEN) ? Starting to think that I might not be that good a teacher! All advice/related experiences welcome!
    Thanks
    Tim
     
  2. teslagirls1

    teslagirls1 New commenter

    Hi,
    I am a year 2 teacher and my class have recently completed their SATS. The expectation at our school seems to be that all of the children should have made at least 3 sublevels of progress since when they joined me in September.Not all of my class have achieved this. Do all your children make this much progress in year 2 (apart from those who are SEN) ? Starting to think that I might not be that good a teacher! All advice/related experiences welcome!
    Thanks
    Tim
     
  3. oxfordblue

    oxfordblue New commenter

    No, not all of my class make 3 sublevels progress over a year. That is also the expectation in my school. In my opinion it is a totally unrealistic expectation. I know this doesn't help you but at least there's someone else in your position. I don't teach Year 2 though, I'm in Year 5.
    In reality they do need to make 2 sub levels progress from Year 2 to Year 6 to be on track - as far as I know!
     
  4. oxfordblue you mean 2 levels between year 2 and 6! [​IMG]
     
  5. I think you mean 2 FULL levels from Y2 to Y6. In KS1 things can be different as over 2 years from end of FS you are looking to achieve average 2b and above, so 1 full level in Y1 and another in Y2 might well be the target. In KS2 you have 4 years to make the expected 2 to 3 full levels of progress to end up with sound L4s or L5s. If some children have had a slow year (because progress is not necessarily a straight line on a graph) some children may have a target for 3 or more sub levels in a year to get back on track.
     
  6. Umm, I know that reception are not using nat curriculum or nc levels but if all children are arriving in year 1 below level 1 (in terms of their knowledge and skills if not actual nc level) then what are they being taught in reception? Most children should be at the equivalent of a level 1 at the end of FS, which should still mean 2/3 progress in y1 and the same in y2. If children are coming up with less than that then it's a bit much to expect their y2 teacher to catch them up by showing 3/3 progress. (Though I know that y5 and 6 teachers are often expected to catch them up after slower progres slower down the school.)
     
  7. 3 sub levels is accelerated progress and to expect all children to make accelerated progress (is this in every year group?) is totally unrealistic. This would mean expecting a child achieving 2b in Y2 to be working at 6b by the end of Y6.
    If this is not an expectation for every year group, then why are some teachers expected to achieve accelerated progress for ALL children - are they paid more? SOME children in every year group may have an appropriate target of 3 sub levels, eg if they only made 1 sub level the previous year.
     
  8. sharwyn i agree with all you said except the last bit - if a child made 1 sub level the previous year they should make 2 sub levels this year. A child would (and this should not happen very often (as you said)) have a target to make 3/3 if they had made no (apparent) progress the previous year.
     
  9. I agree that 3 sublevels in a year is ridiculous, although I know that it is more achievable to make this kind of progress between years 1 and 2, it should not be the expectation for all children.
    However, I disagree that if a child has made less progress the previous year, the next year they should be expected to make more. Sometimes this works and a child just wasn't making even progress and had matured more later than other children. But usually if a child made no progress or only 1 sublevel, there is a reason, either in the child's attitude, or home problems, and they are likely to continue making slower progress than the rest unless their issues are sorted out. I do think it is unfair on the next teacher to say, well this child made no progress last year, but you are expected to get them to do more than all the other children.
     
  10. Well said twinkle.
     
  11. Yes! I agree, I should have said that they are expected to, not that they should!
     
  12. Alea, the FS profile doesnt directly link in to the NC, and isnt meant to. Its a much more holistic, all around curriculum, and whilst it gives you an idea of the ability of the child, it isnt intended to give them a NC level at the end of it. You cant ask "what reception teachers have been teaching them if they dont finish R at L1" because thats not their focus - they're teaching to the profile statements, and theres a MUCH bigger emphasis on social skills and talk etc.
     
  13. Agree Impulce, which is why year 1 teachers need to spend time filling the gaps in the profile during the transition process and moving on to NC objectives.
    It makes me so mad that LA people have decided that certaing numbers on the profile equate to certain levels, so they come in to year 1 with levels that they are not working at, which has a huge knock on effect to us in year 2!
     
  14. I teach Y2 and it is possible for many children to progress 3 sub levels within the year, as 1b to 2b doesn't seem as big a leap as 2b to 3b, or 3b to 4b. However, it shouldn't be seen as a 'set in stone' expectation by heads. I always expect my able children to progress 3 sublevels, and my average to 'aspire' to the it, but I know in reality many average won't!
     
  15. With the evidence needed for APP it now seems a much bigger leap, so for an expectation to be set that all pupils will make 3 sublevels is ridiculous.
     
  16. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    In the days before "sub levels" wasn't the expectation was that children made 2 levels progress in KS1 and 2 levels progress in KS2 ?(so 3 sub levels per year in KS1 and 3 sub levels every 2 years in KS2) ...
     
  17. teacherman2

    teacherman2 New commenter

    All children, whatever year group (1-6) and beyond have set targets each year of 2 sub-levels improvement for example from 1c-1a or 3c-3a, 4b-5c etc. unless special cases where this is obviously not going to happen where they can be given a target of one sublevel improvement. 99.5% of children will however have a target of 2 sublevels improvement within whichever year they are in from start to end. If children do this they are ontrack with their progress. However if they achieve less than this, which can be the case, this is slowed development. If a child has 3 sublevels or more development this is accelarated development.

    Hope this helps and doesn't reiterate what others have said too much.

    R.
     
  18. oxfordblue

    oxfordblue New commenter

    Oops, I didn't realise I'd written that chn only need to make 2 sub levels progress between Year 2 and 6. What I meant was that they need to make 2 sub levels progress every year between Year 2 and 6! (I think Year 3 is the general exception to this rule as the difference in testing and the teaching structure and environment can make Year 3 a 'dip' year)

     
  19. Impulse, I do know and understand what you're saying but I still think they should have learnt enough reading/writing and number skills to be around a level one. (So I guess what I'm saying is that they aren't starting from scratch in year 1 and therefore apparent progress should be easy to show relatively quickly.)
    Robjowett1 there is no need for children to be set 2/3 of a level target every year. Expected progress is 1 level every 2 years (apart from the alleged exceptions in ks1 [​IMG] ) so progress should be either 1 or 2 sub levels a year (1 then 2, or 2 then 1). To be given targets of 2/3 every year, for every child, is unrealistic and puts unnecessary pressure on teachers, and also surely means that more children are below target and appear to be underachieving? I can't see why schools would do this?
     
  20. The reason every year group is asked to expect 2 sublevels a year, even if the child may have achieved 2 increments of progress the previous year, is so that schools can acrue "value added". The extra points of progress help the league table stats.
     

Share This Page