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disclosure - do speeding fines count?

Discussion in 'Scotland - prospective teachers' started by u-boat, May 23, 2007.

  1. does 3 points on your driving licence as result of a fixed penalty fine count as a conviction? I have asked disclosure and the jobsworths, instead of just answering an astoundingly simple question, say to contact 'Apex' to ask the same thing. Who the heck are they when they are at home, presumeably just another bunch of jobsworths?
     
  2. does 3 points on your driving licence as result of a fixed penalty fine count as a conviction? I have asked disclosure and the jobsworths, instead of just answering an astoundingly simple question, say to contact 'Apex' to ask the same thing. Who the heck are they when they are at home, presumeably just another bunch of jobsworths?
     
  3. This will not affect your ability to become a teacher.

    If it did, there would be hardly any teachers allowed to work in this country!
     
  4. I just wondered if I needed to put it down! You know what these civil servant drones are like, there will be a section for it, a sub-section Clause A (Scotland) blah blah form-filling way of having to say, yes, I have a speeding ticket. And if you don't fess up you'll be accused of lying.
     
  5. I have 3 points for 'failing to stop at a red light' (I was too busy jabbering and it HAD been green when I looked from far far away...), and I had to get an enhanced disclosure for teaching Top-Up last year from Glasgow Uni. The points dont appear anywhere so you can rest assured.

    I think it's a bit mean to make us pay for it ourselves though. When I taught Top-Up Glasgow Uni picked up the tab.
     
  6. You need to put it on the form but it shouldnt affect your disclosure. I think it is only sentences which could not be commuted to a fine that count.
     
  7. ok, thanks folks
     
  8. Astounding simple question - astoundingly simple answer: Yes, declare them, (even if they are 'spent') as they are criminal convictions! If you don't and they show up it looks bad.

    But mine have never shown up on any of my disclosures/CRB checks either side of the Border.

    And employers don't seem that bothered (but then, how many do you have???)
     
  9. I have been through about three disclosures with my three speeding points in toe, and it has never been a problem. As a previous poster said, there would hardly be any teachers left if speeding meant that you weren't fit for the job!
     
  10. Poor Tom - if you have declared them, what do you mean they did not show up in your checks? And when I say points, I just mean the statutory three, from the one fine. There is just a single box on the form to tick if you have any convictions from what I can see, and no space to say that it's a speeding fine and not a homicide.
     
  11. What form are you filling in?
    Most job application forms leave space for 2 or 3 convictions, others ask for a yes/no, with additional details on a separate piece of paper, sometimes in a separate envelope to be dealt with other than by the selection panel (e.g. legal opinions, etc). So I've declared them on my various applications.

    The standard Disclosure Scotland form doesn't ask... http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/ssi2006/ssi_2...
     
  12. I guess it must be the standard disclosure then - there is a box for the three levels of disclosure and you have to state which you are applying for, so the form for all must be the same, and the box for convictions is only that, with no other space and nothing asking for details separately.
     
  13. "I guess it must be the standard disclosure then - there is a box for the three levels of disclosure and you have to state which you are applying for, so the form for all must be the same, ..." Yes, that's question A1...

    "...and the box for convictions is only that, with no other space and nothing asking for details separately." Sorry, what box for convictions?? follow the link I gave last post (10) and search the form for it. If you find it tell me I'm blind, thick, geriatric or all three!

    If it's a teaching job/course you're doing it for it will be enhanced, not standard.

    If you're not in Scotland it'll be a different form, but I've done a dozen or more English ones and don't recall ever being asked on the form about convictions.

    After my first one (like all others) missed my speeding fines fron 1978 and 1989 I even phoned the (English) CRB office for reassurance - they weren't worried.
     
  14. Hi, just to reassure you, I've done about 15 disclosures in the past 3 years (no exageration!) for different places, all enhanced, and not once have I felt the need to disclose a speeding fine. It doesn't ask for it. I got my fine in 2001, with 3 points, and have disclosed it on job applications that specifically ask for speeding/motoring convictions, but what disclosure want to know is if you are going to be a danger to children or vulnerable people, not whether you can drive well or not. Stop worrying about it, if you have no 'real' convictions then I'd just leave it at that, a speeding conviction is not a declarable conviction unless it is going to affect the job you are doing.
     
  15. leesey, requests for info on 'convictions' or 'criminal record' *include* motoring offences, and failure to declare them could render you liable for instant dismissal if discovered. The differentiation is between 'spent' and 'unspent' convictions, and employers would - rightly - take the view that as they have a duty of care to the children, it is the employer (not you) who should decide whether your convictions are relevant.

     
  16. I have just yesterday filled in *another* disclosure scotland form, and NOWHERE on the form or the notes for the form has it asked for motoring convictions. If I am "found out" as you call it, I will happily admit that I had a speeding fine when I was 17, it's not something I'm trying to cover up!! But since there is nowhere on the form that states 'please declare speeding violations' then I don't need to declare it, simple as that. Please, feel free to view the form at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/ssi2006/ssi_2...
    and then you can tell me that I'm 'liable for instant dismissal. If this is the case I will get in touch with my local authority and the gtcs immediately and inform them of my 'offences' because I am in no way hiding. Please do not turn round and tell newly qualified teachers, or students for that matter, that they are liable for instant dismissal, it is pointless scaremongering and you should be ashamed of yourself.
     
  17. Leesey, if you read my posts 10 and 12 you'll see that we agree about the Disclosure Scotland forms NOT asking about motoring (or any other) convictions.

    As such, U-boat seems confused, and I suspect is filling in a totally different form for a differetnt purpose. We'd know if he/she answered my question in post 10...

    My own belief is that by declaring 'unimportant' convictions on application forms (if asked to) you will show prospective employers that you are honest, open and trustworthy. But the law would support an employer taking disciplinary action against an employee who'd hidden something. Beware also of the 'Additional Information'or 'Supporting Statement' boxes on application forms, as they are often introduced by small print which says 'any other relevant information'. For an employer, that could well include things which *don't* actually support the application.

    Believe me, you don't want your employer to sack you over something like that. I know because I've been exactly there. It's much harder to get another job when you have to put on a form: 'Reason for leaving: dismissed'.
     
  18. Ok wel fair enough, if that's the case then indeed you are a 'poor tom' but since we are on the scotland forum and talking about disclosure it's only natural for me to assume that we are talking Disclosure Scotland. And to back up what I said before, I have nothing to hide, so if I am filling in a detailed application for a job or such then I do declare the previous motoring convictions. It is not required, however, on Disclosure forms, which was the entire purpose of this thread. I'll not bother offering my advice to prospective students in the future if this is going to be the thanks I get.
     
  19. Freddie92

    Freddie92 New commenter

    I recall a leaflet from the GTC on the things you should declare and it did say that minor motoring offences (parking and speeding fines) were not important.

    It did however include drink driving, dangerous driving, driving without a licence, driving while disqualified and all that kind of stuff.

    I just wish I still had it, but I don't.

    It may have actually been something to do with what behaviours outside of school is expected from a teacher. I think it was around 2003, 2004 it was dished out.
     
  20. Leesey, I hope that if you read my posts carefully you'll see that no slight was intended to you or anyone else (though U-Boat seems to have been muddled initially as to what form was in front of him/her).

    If it's not clear, then I take this opportunity to apologise sincerely for any affront.

    My career has not yet recovered from being sacked a decade ago for failure to include in an application information which my employer deemed relevant, even though I had had advice from prominent senior fellow-professionals that it was *not relevant*. (Sorry to be so coy, I hope you all understand why...) And at a level well below criminal charges or convictions...



    I'd hate for that to happen to anyone else.
     

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