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Discipline

Discussion in 'Computing and ICT' started by Mroneill13, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. Mroneill13

    Mroneill13 New commenter

    Hi,

    I work in a challenging school and in the ICT department. We only have 1 classroom and it is 60 computers, 2 teachers all in one. A lot of the time we have no where to send naughty kids and our HOD is not always in the room. When Senior leadership is called to remove a student from the lesson, they will not do so and teaching and learning suffers.

    After the new year I would like a big clamp down on discipline but not sure were to go. Along with a number of staff in the school, I feel unsupported in this area. An exclusion offence e.g. telling a teacher to 'F off' is often swept under the table.

    Has anyone any ideas what to do or how to work with this situation?
     
  2. Mroneill13

    Mroneill13 New commenter

    Hi,

    I work in a challenging school and in the ICT department. We only have 1 classroom and it is 60 computers, 2 teachers all in one. A lot of the time we have no where to send naughty kids and our HOD is not always in the room. When Senior leadership is called to remove a student from the lesson, they will not do so and teaching and learning suffers.

    After the new year I would like a big clamp down on discipline but not sure were to go. Along with a number of staff in the school, I feel unsupported in this area. An exclusion offence e.g. telling a teacher to 'F off' is often swept under the table.

    Has anyone any ideas what to do or how to work with this situation?
     
  3. Detention. If your lesson is not adjacent to a break then after school. And
    where they have to make up the time lost in your lesson. Ring home (lots) and even
    if the parents don't care they will once you keep ringing at inconvenient times such as Jeremy Kyle or eastenders. Worked for me!
     
  4. set up clear step by step consequences & sanctions. publish them too so they have no excuses. Name them what you will - ours are called Consequences & goas follows
    • C1 (first 10 minutes - allows for settling down) - minor, usually just a warning, name on board/laminated sheet.
    • C2 - second warning - move seat, poss some lines to do there and then, poss short break/lunchtime/after school detention (up to 30 mins) name recorded again, note in planner.
    • C3 - 1 hour after school detention - if they are still going to be disruptive I move them away from machines & set them lines to do in class and tell them they will do the lesson after school; a spare table & chair from a normal classrom at the front does for me. Name recorded & formal letter home informing parents date, time & reason. Must be approved by HoD or a least referred to them. Student must normally have been through C1 & 2 unless serious enough.
    • C4 - Sent 'On call' at ours - automatic isolation for at least 1 hr, more serious means they stay in isolation until parents are seen and punishment length has been set. Students work in silence in bays doing basic English, Maths or Science work from texts or workbooks. Plus a 1 hr after school detention run by senior management
    To be honest I find I very rarely get past C2 now because I have an Excel workbook set up with a whole raft of pre-written lines for pretty much every occassion; each 'line' is at least 2 lines long, each worksheet prints out double sided and I have a folder with some printed ready and waiting. Most soon settle down once they know they get dished out and have to be filled out neatly and correctly!

    The rule for any system is, in my opinion, be firm, be fair, be consistent and most of all be persistent especially with those that try to get away with not doing the lines/detentions/etc - it is worth it in the end because your reputation about someone who sticks to it will spread. Be soft and you are just wasting your time.

    Seems like your superiors need to do the same. Oh and for them they also need to be supportive (and consistently so).
    PS You could also look at http://www.evildetentions.co.uk/ for other ideas!
    Hope thats of some help to you.
     
  5. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    Switching off their computer and making them sit at an empty table with either some dull written work or 'on the spot lines' is definitely a start. It's quite sad to see how quickly some of them get monitor withdrawal.
     
  6. Commisserations, that is the type of schoo l work in [​IMG]
    I understand how important it can be to get kids out and how little management will take reponsibility for that. I'm sorry but some of hte other responses here show little awareness of how bad things can be. Telling a teacher to 'f*** off' isn't really worthy of a mention in my place either.
    The open plan classroom thing must be awful - the chances of disruption must rise exponentially.
    My only suggestion is to remove some of the bad kids before the lesson starts - if you have somewhere to put them and if the school allows this (of course you don't have to tell them that you are doing it).
    Removal of a few key societal underclass *** can transform your experience in lessons.
    All unofficial but effective.
     
  7. Diabolical that SMT doesn't support you! We run a very similar system to GQ52, but after C1 and C2, C3 leads to them being sent to a different room. All HOD's and more senior staff are used on a timetable so that C3 kids are sent to rooms where we know there will be few distractions - usually 6th form classes.
    I would hope your HOD is offering some support, with the chance to send kids to him now and then.
    I back up GQ52 in that if you apply a system such as this consistently it does work. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like your SMT consider behaviour a serious problem - strange!
     
  8. 2 teachers in a single 60-seater lab? That's not healthy.
    You need the place partitioned. Nothing fancy. Get a reputable joiner and a pile of MDF.
    Continual mis-behavers get to paint it. With a toothbrush.
     
  9. This thread kind of fascinates me.
    Some folk have no idea at all what schools can be like.
    Sitting a kid at a table; 'f*** off, I'm going'
    Management suddenly seeing the light of your super discipline plans? Yeah right.
    Partitioning off? I've actually forced that one through by threatening to go sick for 6 months (I'd have threatened to resign but they would have been fine with that) but management will probably reply that the shared classroom is an innovative learning environment and that your failure to cope with it shows that your teaching is out-of-date.
    Making them do unpleasant detention things? They won't turn up; no-one who matters will give a toss that they didn't turn up and the kids will tell you to f*** off when you ask them.
    Being fair; that really isn't important.
    It's not easy all of this.
     
  10. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    Reminds me of the time some years ago when I was actually timetabled to simultaneously teach two different ICT-based exam classes taking two different subjects in two different rooms. The rooms were adjoining, so part of each lesson was spent standing in the corridor so I could see who needed help in either room. Mad.
     
  11. tjra

    tjra Occasional commenter

    I find it incredible that in this day and age some teachers still use "writing lines" as a valid method of behaviour management. Sheesh.
     
  12. And your better, up to date and far more effective methods are????????
    At least my lines also meet literacy strategy aims too - they include complex sentences, punctuation, connectives and have a clear meaning plus, of course, personal feedback and comments about improving future performance. [​IMG]
     
  13. First course of action, get them out of the room. Throw them out. The door.

    And if the next day, the problem continues. Throw them out again. This time through the window (and I hope that you're on any level except the ground floor as they then have less chance of survival :) ).
     
  14. tjra

    tjra Occasional commenter

    Step-by-step sanctions that are clear for the teacher and clear for the student. Step 1: warning, Step 2: detention, Step 3: isolation etc etc (with other steps added in between if necessary, or the opportunity for the student to "work off" the detention). There should also be a conversation between the teacher and the student about what happened and how you can both ensure it doesn't happen again. Getting a student to write lines is just bullyish and archaic.
     
  15. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    Response: The 'Bothered?' facial expression at best. More generally, simply ignoring you and continuing to do whatever it was that you warned them about.
    Response: Simply not turning up.
    Response: Simply ignored (unless SMT are involved when instead of it being ignored, it is protested with complaints of the teacher bullying the child, or being a "rubbish teacher", or claiming they "don't understand what they're being sanctioned for", etc.)
    I think if I worked in a school where your steps actually worked I'd be more inclined to stay in the profession!
     
  16. tjra

    tjra Occasional commenter

    It's a shame you're in that position. When I started at my school we were in the same place (Notice to Improve) with students openly swearing at teachers, wandering the corridors etc. Now, 4-5 years on, we're hoping for a Good next time from Ofsted. The thing is that one teacher alone can't make the difference - it has to be topdown with support from SMT and with consistency from all other staff. I'm lucky I joined the school at a time of change - good luck with yours but if SMT aren't supportive then there really isn't much hope for the behaviour of students. Sorry to hear it, and sorry for being naive and putting my rose-tinted glasses, forgetting that if I'd tried to give myself that advice 4 years ago I'd have also scoffed at what I said. :(
     
  17. DEmsley

    DEmsley New commenter

    Seems a considerable distance between warning and detention (depending on the length of the detention of course)
    I've worked in schools where Assertive Discipline is used and that gives short detentions straight after the lesson, or breaktimes, for minor offenses. Major offenses are dealt with on a sliding scale.
    I'm appalled by some of the comments on here which seem to imply no whole-school discipline system which is very worrying for colleagues in those schools.

    Clarity and consistency are essential to all discipline systems, along with whole-school support.

     
  18. Demsley,
    Mate, we have a whole-school discipline system - it's all there on paper.
    Never applied, of course.
    'Discipline begins and ends in the classroom' is the clarion call of **** management.
    And the call is heard a lot in some schools.

     
  19. Sorry tomrattle, you simply contradict yourself. Your system is similar to ours, my lines are one of your 'other steps in between' and giving them the chance to "work off a detention" or any other punishment is simply a sop & lack of consistency to the students - yeh we can do it then do a bit and get away with it, so I'll do it again.We have the 'conversation' and write it in their planners. Simple talking to them is not enough. Lines are no more archaic than detention.
    I should know, I've seen (nearly) it all in 35 year!
    PS you still offered nothing new.
     
  20. A discipline system restricted to paper only will never work, unless those from the top-down take some responsibility. If you have tried sanctions and all the rest, but by the time it gets to the top that nothing happens (no punishment from the top down), then don't bother yourself too much about it. If the top dogs aren't too bothered about it and won't back you up, then don't get yourself too worked up over it. Like I said before, if it's an f-off you get, throw them out. Give them an ultimatum, plain and simple - if they don't want to be there, get out. They only want you to keep them in your classroom because then it's your problem.
     

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