1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Discipline

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by segbog, Oct 6, 2011.


  1. There you go again: ask the teachers. Teachers are not a homogeneous group.
    Which teachers? The majority who are collegiate and proactive and want to work with parents, pupils, SMT and "experts"?
    Or the tiny minority who want to simply moan and whine and blame everyone else and lash out all the time and offer nothing constructive?

    You know for someone who bleets continuously about being "attacked" for their views and wanting to help it seems that when people raise concerns about their situation all you want to do is tell them that they are a bunch of whiners, (well the ones that see things form a different perspective than you) Face facts teachers are very rarely consulted. The only body who has ever asked for my opinion and taken it on board are my union!
     
  2. I came through the Jordanhill set-up a few years ago, and Raymond took some fo the classes that I had. I remember one class in particular that I found evry helpful, where he taught us how to teach children to structure their essays (PCQE). I used it today wioth my third year during first period. He also showed us a nifty method of helping kids to write their own poems. Thanks, Raymond.
    I am a fan of CfE. I think that, if implememted successfully, it helps to move teaching away from an archaic, didactic, chal and talk style of tecahing to a more progressive and collabroative learning environment where the kids are able to learn from one another, and engage in a while range of fun and lively activities. However, the principles of CfE are, in my admitted liited experience as a teacher, far easier to implement in some schools that others. And again for me it comes down to the influence of SMT.
    I have taught in various inner-city Glasgow schools over the past four years. Two of those schools were right next to one another, and had a very similar cathment area in a very deprived area of the city. In one of the schools the kids were,n on the whole, very poorly-behaved, apathetic and disaffected. In the other the kids were, on the whole, well-behaved, respectful, and willing to work. It might well be a coincidence, but in the school where the kids were well-behaved the SMT were a delight: very visible throughout the school at alltimes of the day; patroling corridors and telling kids to straigteh theirb ties; walking into to classrooms on a daily basis and asking teachers iof there were any problems, etc etc etc. In the other school, where the kids were running riot, the SMT
     
  3. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Actually, if you read the OP, I replied in a very understanding manner, hoping to raise his spirits and perhaps offer a glimmer of hope. What I got in return was, "you don't know what you're talking about because you never see what pupils are like".
    Ho hum...
     
  4. In my opinion you have hit the nail on the head - yes it does take all of us to do our bit I have never shirked that responsibility, BUT the key is good leadership. The trouble is that what do staff do when this is not present - as it seems to be in Segbogs case?
    I have had first hand experience of bad leadership or should I say dictatorship, and suffered for it, I did stand up for myself and others was shouted and screamed at and taken in for little private chats with other members of the SMT and the HT to try to intimidate me - what do you do about that when all around you things are falling apart?
     
  5. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Thanks, Mr Kamikaze! The PCQE may well be my finest contribution to Scottish education!!!
    Nice to hear from a supporter, despite the undoubted problems there are with it.
    I'd agree - the influence of the SMT is enormous. However, as a classroom teacher, I'd prefer to think that I was in control of what was going on it it, that it was my classroom and the decisions I took and the relationships I fostered set the tone. I think teachers have enormous power to affect the ethos of their classroom; if the SMT are on the ball, that's an added bonus. I think that to always look to the SMT actually emasculates us; we should be kings in our own castles by being prepared and planned to manage the behaviour in our classes, good and bad.
     
  6. Ugh- that's what I get for trying to write a post when the bell was looming- I had to abandon my unfinished and un-edited drivel mid-post. I think what I was trying to say is that it is very difficult for classroom teachers to get the best out of their kids when the whole ethos of the school is counter-productive to enabling us to enact the four capacities of a Curriculum for Excellence. When kids are turning up at your door in an extremely hyper and unruly state of mind, and when it takes you twenty minutes to calm them down at the start of the period, and you're spending half your time telling them to listen and to stop shouting across the class and to get some work done, it is very hard, if not impossible, to make lessons fun and active for the kids. Like I said, I taught in two schools right next to one another, and the behaviour of the kids at those schools were the polar opposite of one another. SMT have a huge role to play in engendering a healthy, welcoming and productive classroom environment- teachers simply cannot do it all on their own, and I really do feel for teachers who work in schools where the SMT are not doing their jobs properly, because it makes teaching in an effective manner nigh-on impossible.
     
  7. Really!
     
  8. Yeah - really!
     
  9. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Now, I wonder if you're both astonished by my assertion that the majority of teachers are collegiate and proactive and willing to work with others?
    And you accuse me of teacher bashing! [​IMG]
     
  10. Picking only the ripest cherries. ;)
     
  11. Yeah - we are all supposed to blindly agree that Scottish education is the best in the world (ignoring international league tables) and start the happy clappy song about how our wonderful kids are responding to the 4 core values of the wonderful CfE....knotting it tbh...

    Shame on certain people...
     
  12. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Is it? Really?
     
  13. 1000's of teachers on the broo. School results rapidly falling. Behaviour gone nuts. Curriculum for Excellence a joke.
    Quickly dropping down the world league tables for educational achievement. Supply teachers being shafted. No new jobs. Pensions destroyed.

    So Ramey - spin the above.

    I dare you!
     
  14. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Eh? What on earth are you on about?
    So a "chin up" because you were having a hard day all of a sudden transforms itself into me having to defend government policy on public sector pensions and the local authority employment of teachers.You're a character out of a Steve Bell cartoon, aren't you? Or Mr Angry from Tunbridge Wells?
     
  15. I'm pretty sure that was Kenneth Williams.
     
  16. Would it be too much to expect teachers to write with at least a reasonable level of accuracy without having to edit their work?
     
  17. Now I come to think of it, yes, you're absolutely correct. It was KW who was Julius Caesar and not Charles Hawtrey; he was the dim father in law instead.
     
  18. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    That's a bit harsh. Given my typing skills, my posts tend to look Greek until I spell check them. After that, they apparently still look Greek to some posters, given their wayward reactions to what I say...
     
  19. Yes, but you don't post until you've done so. A modicum of care should be taken, especially if you want to defend CfE. There's a growing trend for people undertaking electronic communication to ignore spelling and punctuation, deliberately or not. Given the quality of some of the emails I get from colleagues, literacy across the curriculum looks like a very bad idea indeed- the blind leading the blind.
     
  20. Again - not allowed to speak the truth because you don't like it. Get real and stop defending a failing system. Oh - that's right - you bread and butter comes from a failing system. Good to know where bread is buttered, eh? Shocking tbh. Scottish education and teaching conditions are going down the toilet but you think it is ok in educational lalaland.

    Scottish education is in a crisis - teachers leaving by the droves. No jobs. I do not need to repeat myself.

    Your whole attitude towards teachers, in general, stinks. You may be some "guru" - at least defend us, and recognise the problems which exist. You seem oblivious and insulting. Some of us are struggling to actually get to school and pay our rents and eat for God's sake due to the condition changes - you don't seem to give a moneys...
     

Share This Page