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Discipline

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by segbog, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. On my high-horse now - where was the lecture and tutorials on gang cultural? Where were the lessons on dealing with 15 year old's that can't read? Where were the lectures on taking over from a teacher who had been hounded out by gang members? Where were the lectures on being assaulted in the street by your pupils?

    Yes - I'm tough enough to take this for a short time, but it is all I can do. I am so tired with waking up and having to take this rubbish everyday. No one should have to go through this.

    Back to discipline. Back to punishment. But above all - back to real education, and not placating the numpties...
     
  2. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    With all due respect, segbog, it's impossible to fit into 18 weeks on campus one hour lectures on every single negative aspect of schooling that you're likely to come across in a 40 year career.
    What can be done is give you some sense of what has been proven to work in general, and have that honed and refined by experience in the classroom. I'm sorry that those experiences have been so negative for you.
     
  3. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Love it!
     
    persiankat likes this.
  4. Very true...

    But why is it all so negative. Every teacher you meet is so depressed...why does it have to be this way? In other countries education is a joy - why is it such a task here? Something is wrong.
     
  5. My god this really is sanctimonious ****, "with all due respect"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There in lies the problem - there is none. Not from management, HMIe, QIos, pupils or parents and don't get me started on those "in the know" so called education experts who don't actually teach 5 days a week telling teachers how you just have to adopt the latest fad form America to have order in your class. Restorative practices and negotiating with kids to do work! As Bill Gates once said
    " The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself"
    Kids life is not fair get used to it, you come to school TO WORK.
     
  6. I beg to differ Segbog, I have worked in the deserts of Dubai with Bedouin children and I can tell you from first hand experience that they do not value education at all!!! I have seen primary 2s up on tables and throwing chairs at each other on the very first day of school. It may appear to be better abroad and it is in some places such as Iraq (would you believe) where I also previously taught, but if you are thinking of working abroad then do not choose the middle east or even Spain, as the children there can also be challenging to say the least.In terms of the 'negative teacher' comment I would have to say that in my experience (which is limited) not 'all' teachers are negative I myself am trying to be as positive as I can and I'm not even in work at the moment (not through choice) but I would agree with you that schools are a hive of 'negativity' at times and it does spread like wildfire, it's a very contagious feeling, and one you should try and remove yourself from at every opportunity. Although working in your classroom it does sound a tough job. Chin up and keep the faith, if you can. :)
     
  7. All this negotiating with kids is utter rubbish - there lies the problem. These kids show no respect for anyone or anything...I hate to use this word, but they are feral.
    Kids that cannot behave should not be in school.
     
  8. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    My comments came from the context of a
    debate that spoke about pupils who behave and work well not getting attention
    in the classroom, not restorative practices. To call me
    "sanctimonious" when you haven’t actually followed what I
    wrote is therefore a little rude.

    And restorative practices actually come from Australia.


     
  9. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Perhaps there's a chicken-and-egg thing
    going on. We don’t acknowledge all the good that there is in
    classrooms - everyone on here has admitted that all the good kids
    don’t get attention - and therefore all we ever talk about are the
    bad kids, which is, of course, depressing.
     
  10. morrisseyritual

    morrisseyritual Occasional commenter

    After university, when I didn't walk into business or realise degrees were not conferred by God, teaching provided one year's guaranteed employment once the course was successfully completed. That kindled in me a kind of contempt for the job, I treated this vocation as a kind of last resort job, took it for granted and admittedly was neither a very conscientious student teacher or probationer. In retrospect the narcissistic, monastic life of study where I was just relying on me and maybe a small clique, gave way to the performance of a socially demanding job where I had to be "on" and "self aware" at all times.It became a nightmare scenario and a recipe for very real stress. I drank to excess at one phase and became a poor employee, no matter what I was doing. What I was doing happened to be teaching. I found a similar pattern among a few others in the job.
    When I was at the "these wee b******s are running riot" stage I looked deep within myself. Solution Focused BRIEF therapy came my way on inservice. It saved my life.
    How could I cope? If I can change myself, discipline myself and control myself, only then can I expect to have some semblance of control over classes in my charge. I stopped drinking, I stuck to three square meals a day, I looked at my life as a whole. Solution Focused guides told me to look for when my personal life and my job was productive and enjoyable and to focus on spreading how i was in those scenarios to the scenarios I found insufferable.
    I looked up on the performers and gurus who can, for good or ill, exert their will on many. Clint Eastwood eyeing up a swarthy band of outlaws, Nelson Mandela conducting assemblies of thousands with waves of his hand, Derren Brown tricking an audience of one to a thousand, Billy Connolly creasing up thousands. What is it they had? What magic was it? No one is some mythological sage who can part seas or control behaviour, but the trick I learned was the difference between a good waiter and a bad waiter.
    An attentive, assertive waiter gets good feedback, great tips and productivity - guests returning - almost every time. A waiter who couldn't give a hoot, is inattentive, doesn't hide his/her apathy will breed resentment among customers and will resent the job him/herself.
    Call me crazy, but heal thyself and the view can become a lot brighter, if not the road less difficult.

     
    persiankat likes this.
  11. Have read every message posted actually and you can take it however you want. The very fact that you know where certain practices come from speaks volumes mate!
     
  12. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Well, I suspect knowing where they come
    from is a little more convincing than claiming to know where
    they come from but actually being mistaken by a continent or two... [​IMG]


     
  13. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Sounds as if you've been on an
    interesting personal journey, morrisey - if it has worked for you,
    fantastic. It's perhaps not for everyone, but hopefully there
    is something for everyone.



     
  14. Or perhaps is just the fact that I actually have a life and couldn't give a toss where they originated and the original reference to both Fads was to highlight the fact that they are two examples of the year on year 'new ideas' we have to implement because someone, usually not practicing teachers, thinks its a good idea.
     
  15. I still believe the entire system is broken. We reward banality and praise the pathetic. Those who do cause trouble get the full benefit of the school and pastoral care teams behind them. Gears are set in motion, a paper chase is begun, telphone conversations made, meeting and interviews are held, and all for the miscreant to be sitting in your class the next day/week. What a total waste of time and energy. Being excluded is a badge of honour. They come back full of themselves, "I'm the big man" kind of thing.
    Glasgow has a policy of non-exclusion - it does not work. The school I am in is nothing more than a holding pen for neds.
    "If you don't get your standard grade, how on earth will you get on in life?" "Sign oan!" That's the attitude I face everyday. I do care about my pupils, but it is beginning to go. There is only so much negativity from the pupils and the staff that you can take. These kids respect nothing and no-one. They way they speak to any adults around them, including SMT, is a total disgrace. Open defiance and just arguing.
     
  16. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    And yet part of your life is to come on here and profess to know where they come from... [​IMG]
     
  17. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    segbog, I agree that there is a lot broken with our systems and
    our society (though I would lay the blame much more on a wider
    economic malaise).

    However, do the relationships in your classroom need to be so
    broken? When I'm in a room with 30 weans - and it does still
    happen - what's going on outside doesn’t really matter. Who
    the HT is, who the parent is, who the Prime Minister is, is actually
    pretty irrelevant to the relationships I build with the kids.
    Some of them can and will be resistant to the relationships I want to
    build with them - but as we've all said there are also lots and lots
    of good kids we ignore. Are they the way to feeling better
    about our classrooms?



     
  18. I didn't profess to know where they came from - you took it upon yourself to enlighten us with your abundant knowledge. America was targeted as this is usually where the latest drivel comes from - in every aspect of life! Zero tolerance is a policy employed by most councils for their workers, but it seems not for teachers. I don't take **** off of my own kids so why should I take it off anyone elses. It really doesn't matter where the fads for dealing with bad behaviour come from - they come and go, waste time and are not working in socially deprived regions of Scotland - where I have worked for nearly 20 yrs. And for the record - this is CPD!
     
  19. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Oh dear...
     
  20. Schools tend to hide their worst miscreants from visitors, be that inspector,s or college lecturers coming in for an observation. A student is usually given one of the best classes to teach during their observation as well.
    The truancy rate at my place is astonishing. They simply do not turn up and not an awful lot is done about it. There is a culture of turning a blind eye to it. Weans are allowed to wander the corridors during class time, and nothing is done about it. There is no sin-bin to send problem kids to. You have to deal with WW3 in your class everyday.

    It's all this treating problem weans with kid gloves that is causing a lot of the problems. There is no respect for teachers left.
     

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