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Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by segbog, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. Context is important. I don't find the idea idea of attempting to tame feral children (those which have been allowed to run wild and have little or no concept of normal interaction) as inappropriate a comparison as you clearly do. I understand your position but disagree and I don't think I can make mine any clearer without repeating myself!
  2. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    Segbog - can you explain what you mean? If you're in a Scottish state school, then the unions are recognised - remember your employer is your LA, not the school. You should take this to the unions, from the sounds of what you're saying it may be the only place you're going to get help.
  3. Report assault to the police. Fill in violent incident report forms for the LA. Get your union involved at area level. Seven teachers in a year? They're testing your commitment - if you can persevere it probably will get better.
  4. xmal

    xmal Established commenter

    Make sure that you speak to your line manager about this and ensure that you tell the union. I was in a terrible school and was bullied by SMT but did nothing to defend myself. I bottled it all up and one day, BOOM! Don't let it get to that stage.
  5. xmal

    xmal Established commenter

    In the mean time watch this...

    Down with this sort of thing...
  6. Aye - will do - think I am dealing with bullying here...SMT nice easy life whilst I live in hell...thanks for the advice...
  7. xmal

    xmal Established commenter

    (from the Oxford Dictionary)
    (especially of an animal) in a wild state , especially after escape from captivity or domestication:
    a feral cat
    resembling or characteristic of a wild animal:
    a feral snarl
    feral youths

    Actually, given the above definition, I'd say that it can be quite an accurate and succinct description of some pupils.
  8. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Only if you think that the best state for a human being is to be "domesticated in captivity like an animal".

  9. Gone off track a bit with that one! How does that apply to pupils in a classroom who are there to learn and are considerate of others in that classroom - pupils and teachers alike? Which is what the thrust of this debate/argument is - or so I thought. [​IMG]
  10. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    I think debates always go off track when you try to apply the Oxford dictionary definition of the word "feral" to human beings. [​IMG]
  11. Isn't living in a community domesticated? Nobody wants to imprison others but we do all need to be able to interact socially.
  12. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Surely "domestication" implies a power relationship that isn't appropriate to human social interaction?
    We "domesticate" animals by force, corralling them and keeping them in confined areas, or herding them, so we can use them to perform various functions or to slaughter them and eat them. When they escape that confinement, we describe them as "feral".
    If a human being were to escape from such conditions, we'd give them a medal and make a Hollywood movie about it. [​IMG]
    We freely interact socially with other human beings for mutually beneficial purposes. I concede that some people don't interact beneficially with others - and they might be unemployed thugs or City hedge fund managing thugs - but their behaviour isn't "feral" because they are not "undomesticated", merely "anti-social".
  13. Nah, my cat is domesticated and he has never been forced to do anything in his whole life! Really, though, it's a matter of semantics rather than any disagreement of substance. The real issue is how to manage children who can't manage appropriate social interaction in the classroom.
  14. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    Sounds exactly like having to be in classrooms in a school from about 9am to 3pm. I'm sure most pupils (and teachers?) would rather be in their beds/in the park/down the town/anywhere else but school. Therefore analogy is pretty accurate. We fall short of eating them (joke) but surely making them do subjects as decided by the system rather than by them is similar to making them perform various functions?
  15. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Really? You think that schools are analogous to battery
    farms and abattoirs?

    In that case, I say "run free, little children, be feral
    while you can!" [​IMG]

    If we really see schools like that, we deserve everything they
    throw at us - literally or metaphorically.

  16. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Well, it would be a matter of semantics - if language weren't so
    imbued with emotive connotations. So "feral" isn’t
    just a neutral descriptive word - it surely has all sorts of
    pejorative implications. I suspect we're in the "no
    offence meant" territory when offence could justifiably be

  17. Someone could justifiably take offence at almost anything, but I've stated my point of view and see no reason to repeat it. Any useful advice for a teacher who finds himself with a class full of children who can't or won't interact succesfully with each other or adults?
  18. RaymondSoltysek

    RaymondSoltysek New commenter

    Of course you don't - why should you have to?

    Tons of advice, but I find it difficult enough getting it in to a
    PGDE course, so I'm not going to have the space here to get anywhere
    near solving the issue, even if there was a "solution", and
    I don’t believe there is - and, I suggest, given your experience,
    you have tons of advice to give others too...

  19. Yup. I still don't have a solution to the initial scenario I described where I was not allowed to remove pupils from class and had no effective sanctions or rewards to offer. I left that school with a feeling of failure because I never did get a good working relationship with that class and I've always wondered what more I could have done.
  20. I just wanted to add something positive to the discussion - some of the kids I teach are feral. Feral feral feral! There I've said it. i feel better for it and it is true by most definitions.i go by the 'would i accept that behaviour in my house' maxim and with the feral ones I wouldn't.

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