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Discipline problem

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by cathr, Mar 30, 2019.

  1. cathr

    cathr Occasional commenter

    I would be grateful for suggestions. I have a year 8 student who manages to disrupt every single lesson and usually gets himself sent out which I am starting to suspect is his aim. He is unable to sit still, will make irrelevant (at times offending) comments in a loud voice which triggers laughter from an otherwise well behaved and reasonably motivated class (German). I have tried engaging him one to one, applied the discipline ladder consistently, moved him to the front, to the back, next to an able student etc to no avail. I have noticed that he gets sent out from other lessons so it clearly is not just me but I am concerned that this student is missing out on a large chunk of education time. The issue should probably be picked by someone higher than me in the chain of command but nothing seems to be happening. What can little me do?
    pepper5 likes this.
  2. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Send him out before his behaviour causes total disruption.
    One warning, then out.
    It might well be his aim, but you win nothing by keeping him there and you have everyone else's education to worry about.

    Once he is out get the others on side. Tell them that one person cannot disrupt a lesson. The disruption is everyone else joining in and encouraging and that you will be giving merits/housepoints/whatever to people you see totally ignoring his comments.
    Flanks, madcatlady, matevans and 10 others like this.
  3. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    What does any student have to do in your school to be removed from the room? Does the behaviour policy deliberately prevent them being removed? At what point is the next person up in the food chain expected to step in?

    Is this indiviual playing to the crowd? As onerous as it sounds, maybe a few extended detentions with just them and yourself to catch up on missed learning might get the message home. They waste your time, you waste twice as much of theirs.
    Flanks and pepper5 like this.
  4. cathr

    cathr Occasional commenter

    That's the issue. This boy misbehaves until it is impossible to keep him in the classroom at which point I have to summon 'on call'. I then leave that in 'on call's' hands but you are right, maybe I should insist on a detention with me to catch up on the work missed. I might even discover, in one to one conversations, why he behaves so badly. Possibly worse giving up my lunch time break...
  5. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    There's also the possibility that this child gains more from time with 'on call' than they do with you, for whatever reason, so their poor behaviour is a premeditated tactic for seeing less of you and more of them. That happened to me in numerous different ways during my career. It could be the kid just sits in a corridor doing sod all, or they may have a better relationship with 'On Call'. At worst, 'On Call' will act like their mate and gives them tidying up tasks to do, so who wouldn't try to duck out of a lesson?

    If the only result is to see more of you and less of 'on call' (via lengthy detentions with just you), they may just accept their lot and endure their weekly lesson allocation more quietly. It might be too much to expect the child advances their learning with you, but you never know.
  6. shamandalie

    shamandalie New commenter

    Have you asked your HoD for support? You could made some sort of behaviour card with targets to be signed at the end of each lesson, and if he doesn't meet his target he is internally removed to your HoD for 2 or 3 lessons, with some silent work to do.

    If he's removed and working with HoD, benefits are: 1. he won't get the attention he is craving from you/the classmates/ on call (who knows); 2. the rest of the class won't have to waste valuable learning time. 3. he might even get some German done!
    madcatlady, agathamorse and pepper5 like this.
  7. cheesypop

    cheesypop Senior commenter

    It is worth talking to other colleagues who teach him to see if he does this there as well as it is possibly an undetected SEN issue. I remember well a ‘proper lad’s lad’ who did just enough to get kicked out of every lesson (whatever that was for each teacher) and would then go to the isolation room and copy whatever he was given. It was so he didn’t have to admit that he didn’t understand. It might be a million reasons, but while you are talking to different people consider also getting the SENCO involved.
    agathamorse likes this.
  8. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Absolutely do not start on detentions with you, unless this is the school's policy.
    And please don't be naive enough to think he will dutifully sit and catch up on work because it's lunchtime and not lesson time. He won't, if he turns up at all.

    Don't let him destroy the lesson. Summon on call much sooner and then continue with the lesson. Otherwise you risk totally legitimate complaints from parents of all the other children.
  9. Progressnerd

    Progressnerd Occasional commenter

    I had this several times when I worked in state schools. One boy got sent out of pretty much every lesson with every Teacher. The On Call member of staff then complained to SLT that they didn't want the boy in their room any more. SLT then started blaming teachers for allowing him to 'roam around corridors.' not sure what the end of the story was as I moved to another school half way through the year.
    mswisdom, agathamorse and cathr like this.
  10. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    If his comments are offensive, he should be on called and removed.
  11. mothergoose2013

    mothergoose2013 Occasional commenter

    Have you spoken to his parents? Depending on how supportive they are you might be able to improve things by speaking to them, especially if you can promise to call back when things improve.
    pepper5 likes this.
  12. cathr

    cathr Occasional commenter

    Very good point on complaints from parents. Thank you
    pepper5 likes this.
  13. yodaami2

    yodaami2 Lead commenter

    My first thought was just one! Wow!
    Yes, all good advice above; but it sounds like there's a missing/ soft link in the behaviour policy. And many of us know about those.
    pepper5 likes this.
  14. peter12171

    peter12171 Star commenter

    If this is happening in all lessons, not just yours, I think you also should raise the matter with the school's SENCo. I am working in a SEN department at the moment, and we have a few students who exhibit this sort of behaviour regularly. So there might be an underlying issue - if there is, it is unlikely that the school's behaviour policy will have much effect, however robust it is.
    pepper5 and cathr like this.
  15. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Occasional commenter

    The key issue hear appears to be the level of persistence in his behaviour, it seems as if each incident is being treated as a separate incident which is dealt with by on call at the time but with no follow up, intervention or monitoring, does your school have a behaviour report card to monitor a pupils ATL and progress.
    Removing him from the lesson is part of the process of managing his behaviour not the solution. Yes to detentions, calls home, HOD / HOY / SENCO or SLT intervention as and when required. It is not necessarily what is done but the fact that something is done.
    By now this persistent behaviour should have been noticed and acted on - are these incidents logged and reported to the relevant middle manager . e.g. HOY / HOH who should be taking an overview.
    cathr likes this.
  16. cathr

    cathr Occasional commenter

    This is interesting: I do wonder whether part of the problem is that there are too many people involved at a middle management level who intervene individually but no holistic approach.
  17. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    To me it seems like this child has an undiagnosed SEN issue (and the behaviour is avoidance) and/or something is occuring at home to cause this behaviour. Liaising with SENCO and a phone call home might shed more light?

    Caterpilartobutterfly - in an ideal world a teacher could call for help quickly and get it. But in many schools calling on SLT/on call too quickly is a fast track to getting scrutinised.
    pepper5, cathr and peter12171 like this.
  18. JJ83

    JJ83 New commenter

    Any SEND needs? Issues outside of the classroom??
  19. cathr

    cathr Occasional commenter

    Yes, JJ83, these issues are present but I a not going to be able to solve them! My problem is how do I get round the consequences of said issues, particularly when the SENd issue is described as 'mild learning difficlties!, so vague and the Senco is never available...
    pepper5 likes this.
  20. cathr

    cathr Occasional commenter

    Totally agree. For the children, it must be like having multiple no communicating parents, each with a different take on the problems...
    pepper5 likes this.

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