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Deutsche Bank

Discussion in 'Personal' started by lexus300, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    In 2006/7 most if not all banks went broke, politicians rescued the banks with tax payers money and when that ran out they just printed more (fake money).
    That was supposed to have been a one off! IE., raiding ordinary peoples money in order to rescue the banks.
    Regulations have not altered significantly and are much the same today as then for fractional reserve banking, gambling on derivatives etc.
    This [This comment/section/image has been removed for breaching our Community Guidelines/Terms and conditions] behaviour backed by politicians IE., they are in league with each other and effectively screwing Joe public.
    Deutsche Bank is a classic example of this behaviour and now has only 1.8% of assets to meet its liabilities and if you then add in their derivatives it is only 0.1% so they are effectively broke. Most other banks may well be in a similar but perhaps not quite as bad position.
    What can be done? Under new 'bail in' legislation they can take your money (savings) and issue shares or bonds!!!!!
    My best guess would be to hide your money.
    I wonder if the German politicians will step in?
     
  2. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    OK let us say "NAUGHTY" instead:rolleyes:
    In 2006/7 most if not all banks went broke, politicians rescued the banks with tax payers money and when that ran out they just printed more (fake money).
    That was supposed to have been a one off! IE., raiding ordinary peoples money in order to rescue the banks.
    Regulations have not altered significantly and are much the same today as then for fractional reserve banking, gambling on derivatives etc.
    This very NAUGHTY behaviour is backed by politicians IE., they are in league with each other and effectively screwing Joe public.
    Deutsche Bank is a classic example of this behaviour and now has only 1.8% of assets to meet its liabilities and if you then add in their derivatives it is only 0.1% so they are effectively broke. Most other banks may well be in a similar but perhaps not quite as bad position.
    What can be done? Under new 'bail in' legislation they can take your money (savings) and issue shares or bonds!!!!!
    My best guess would be to hide your money.
    I wonder if the German politicians will step in?
     
  3. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    Not being any sort of economics expert, though having studied a bit of it and not understood it, I understand that the politicians could not let the banks collapse. Having posted that, the fact that the whole system has been propped up by savers, as you suggest, since 2008 is scandalous. The banks and building societies were given all that "free" money (i.e ours) and that was to keep interest rates low to supposedly cap inflation, so they apparently didn't need savers money and could drop interest rates to nearly zero. Effectively it means that small savers get paid nothing (as low as 0.1% ins many accounts) to buy houses for those with mortgages (and presumably lend to businesses) at artificially low rates. The rates paid to savers are well below inflation in all cases. (Searching something like Martin Lewis website will confirm this). Unless of course you want to take the risk with shares and so on, but who would after the way the banks behaved? Buy gold, stuff it somewhere safe, don't tell anybody.
     
    burajda, needabreak and lexus300 like this.
  4. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    There are a few other physical assets as well;)
     
  5. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The UK bank bailout was in the form of loans and guarantees, not gifts. And most UK banks declined the support offered - Lloyds and RBS were the only major recipients, and the money they received was in the form of the government purchasing shares, most of which were subsequently sold and the money returned to the treasury.

    The Lloyds bailout was repaid in full by 2017, but it is unlikely that the full amount to RBS will be recouped as the bank is now worth less than the amount in shares that the government paid for it.
     
    needabreak likes this.
  6. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Correct but when Deutsche Bank goes will it drag down others that it has off loaded some of its liabilities on to?
     
  7. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    If another bank has accepted a liability from DB it will be unaffected by the health of DB
     
  8. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    The big short was an interesting watch... A summary here...

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/020115/big-short-explained.asp
     
  9. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Watch that space. If it starts to unfold it will make 2007 look mild in comparison.
     
  10. afterdark

    afterdark Established commenter

    Well I still hear people talking about the mess that Brown and Blair left as if they personally cuased the financial crash or 07 /08.

    I still say that Iceland had the right idea. Apologists for the banksters claim that the population of Iceland has some relevance, I doubt it.

    The collusion of the UK government with UK based banks to stop any of them failing like a normal business would is not a good thing in the long run for the general populus.

    Austerity has been inflicted upon the bulk of the UK population as a consequence of the bailing out the crash. That was the official reason. Cambridge economist tells us that austerity is simply a political choice.

    It always seems to be the poor/(not rich) that suffer/bear the brunt of it.

    I wish more people would realise that they that are not rich.
     
    lexus300 likes this.
  11. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    If the banks had failed the austerity would have been worse. Failed banks would not increase government income.
     
    needabreak likes this.
  12. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    Now I know who you are!
    E06A307C-5130-462F-9C3F-E117E5700A44.jpeg
     
  13. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    If it would ever happen, a bail out of DB raises a lot of issues, Depositors and bondholders and shareholders still hold vast sums of money in DB.
    The German government has ruled that the stakeholders and shareholders in the bank must shoulder the losses not the taxpayer. The ECB will be watching closely, they know that the whole eurozone and beyond will be in crisis and there will be riots in Greece, Cyprus and Italy and total political upheaval elsewhere if Germany bails out one of its own banks after having enforcing such painful austerity measures on other eurozone states.
    Ivartheboneless is right that one should diversify ones assets, people should have been buying physical gold, not just starting now. The price is high at the moment with the tensions between the US and China and now Iran
    But I think a bailout of DB is unlikely, but like lexus I dont have a crystal ball either.
     
  14. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Apart from the fact that no one seems to have a definitive definition of the term rich, perhaps those that know they aren't rich want a crack at getting rich... That was certainly the view of the working class tories I grew up with, selfish? Yes, but on the whole they were honest, they didnt like being poor and wanted the quickest easiest route out of poverty bar crime so looking after others in a socialist regime was not going to help their cause, its taken me 40 years to understand their approach.

    Edit - interestingly none of then are in poverty now though no one would call them rich, they pay their taxes and have comfortable lives, while their children definitely have better life chances than they did. Who am I to question their choices?
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  15. afterdark

    afterdark Established commenter

    The very group of people I was thinking of.
     
  16. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Never, how did I guess?
     
  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    The UK government entered a spending deficit in 2002...
    [​IMG]

    This increase in deficit spending was complimented by a rise in tax receipts.... creating a public sector golden era where government was flush with cash and the increased revenues meant investors and lenders had confidence in the UK government to repay its debts.
    [​IMG]
    The 'crash' of 2008 saw UK GDP go from $3 trillion to $2.3 trillion, resulting in government tax receipts being lower for the following year. My point here is that the causes of 'austerity' are deeper than 'we bailed out the banks' and go back to decisions made in the second term of Blair.
    upload_2019-7-12_9-55-41.png
    Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IUj_AGJS5WywibuptGr4lZVP9M0QCTvkZQ0Q_Pp9CHw/edit#gid=1

    But you are right in that 'austerity' was in many respects a political choice. Clearly tax receipts did recover by 2010 and then go on to grow. Although a quick check on a historic inflation calculator shows that while the amount may be going up, in real terms, accounting for inflation, it was largely held steady [£522bn in 2010 is £687bn in 2019 money]... so in 2007 £514bn would now be £731bn. Meaning the UK gov is operating with a shortfall of ~£41bn in real terms.
     
    needabreak likes this.
  18. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    and not part of the power 'clique'
     
  19. afterdark

    afterdark Established commenter

    Quite a long post to admit I was right.

    So all the tax cuts for super rich and giant corporations etc despite the fact there is shortfall. What poor governance by the Tories.
     
  20. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Meanwhile Germany has just borrowed 3billion Euro’s via bond issue at zero percent interest for 10 years. I wonder where that money is heading?
     

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