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despair, despair, despair.

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by dunnocks, Apr 14, 2017.

  1. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I'm talking about behaviour. I know the teacher workload is insane and ridiculous, and most of it a stupid waste of time, but I'm not talking about this for the moment.

    I am talking about behaviour.

    What is the point?

    What is the point of anything we do, any resources we have, any preparation, planning, marking, any support staff, or anything, if the little *****s willfully refuse to learn.

    it doesn't matter if its chalk and talk, or some silly current educational fad, or anything else.

    This is what drives me to despair.

    Everything laid on on a silver plate, and the students simply **** all over it ( then the teachers get blamed for poor results, but that is a different story)

    I know I have posted about this before, and people tell me it is not universal, but honestly it is so many of the classes I see every day, children would rather have food fights in the class room or play on their phones throughout the whole lesson, and pretend they cannot see or hear the teacher.

    What I would really like is to see each and every individual held fully accountable for the cost of wasted education.

    What actually happens is hand flapping and paperwork, ( if staff have the energy) and no difference to the behaviour at all.

    Surely it must be blatantly obviously to who ever has the power to judge and control these things ( sec of state for education? I don't even know)

    Children should not be allowed to get away with this, they should be made to work.

    THEN they would learn, and THEN standards would go up.
  2. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    A few years ago it was all about "Independent Learning"

    What I am seeing is a total lack of Independent learning and a willingness for students to blame everyone but themselves.

    It's terrible in my current school - I cannot believe how complacent these kids are.
  3. saluki

    saluki Senior commenter

    This is the generation which will have to keep us in our old age:(.
    I often think that they should be kicked out of school aged 16 and made to go to work - or do national service. Anything which means they have got to do Something. Sad to say, Education is wasted on certain students. If they don't want opportunities, if they want to work in dead end jobs, sobeit. Free will and determinism and all that jazz.
    I recently told some of my students that they will have to work until they are 70. They replied "No chance, I'll just go on the dole" Not for nothing s this generation known as the snowflake generation.
    Having said that, one of my students is juggling 3 part time jobs and 2 boyfriends. Her attendance is good and all work up to date, no behavioural problems. I assume she will do well in life.
    zcsaa44, bevdex, thistledoo and 6 others like this.
  4. binaryhex

    binaryhex Lead commenter

    I left at Christmas as a HoD of Computer Science mainly because of behaviour. What is really striking is the number of schools I worked at in the last 15 years which OFSTED said were 'good' yet daily behaviour of a significant minority was terrible and disrupting everyone else's learning to a serious degree.

    OFSTED got hoodwinked. They didn't ask teachers anonymously about behaviour. They didn't examine staff turnover figures or the number in on supply. They didn't pick up on the number of teachers many students had in a year because their subject supply teacher rarely stayed more than a month. They didn't ask staff about how effective the SLT's behaviour management policy was.

    If OFSTED had bothered to ask the right questions, they wouldn't be so easily fooled. No school should be good or outstanding if behaviour is not excellent.
  5. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Lead commenter

    I seem to have been luckier than the posters above with behaviour. And I'm not particularly good at it myself.

    The schools I've been in have revolting pupils but they are largely kept in check by staff and SLT following a behaviour policy with clear guidelines.

    It all goes horribly wrong if the school can't or won't exclude (or get rid by some means) pupils because that grade A toerag ends up returning to class and makes everything unmanageable as he knows that the final sanction won't be applied.
  6. drvs

    drvs Star commenter

    Edited for you :(
    tosh740 likes this.
  7. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    They have several ways to get you then. You can be "too didactic" (although Mrs Egostomper was always talking to her class whenever I went by) or you can set a task requiring independent learning and be failed because someone wasn't independent enough.

    That doesn't mean I'm not in favour of independent learning, it's the best way to learn. I feel Dunnocks's frustration though.
  8. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    With my current Year 10s (who I really like) I told them what the new course was like and how much we would have to do to complete it and they are working well.

    But the Year 11s are a different kettle of fish. I only teach (thank god) a small bottom set (some of whom are actually overachieving) but they have to be pushed all the time. We did another practice exam for them all just before Easter - the results of the higher sets were so bad they were beyond belief.
    thistledoo and pepper5 like this.
  9. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    Students arrive in secondary school and many waste years 7,8,9,10 and 11. That is five years of everyone's time and money and not a lot to show for it in the end.

    In a few years' time, schools are going to struggle to find anyone who is willing to teach because of the behaviour. There are now very few boundaries in schools and students in some schools mostly do what they want and are in charge. The general public would not believe how bad it is. Or maybe they would believe it, but don't care.
  10. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    In my school, students are well and truly in charge, we are told not to "be negative" as in set detentions, and to "understand that being told off is traumatic for a child" and so should avoid it....
    Alldone and pepper5 like this.
  11. pepper5

    pepper5 Star commenter

    It really is simple. Follow instructions.

    Working as a supply teacher much of my work involves covering classes where teachers are off with stress and a lot of it is down to stress because of the behaviour. Teachers will take off particular days to avoid certain classes just to survive.

    Students are alllowed to act how they want, say what they want and do what they want and if teachers don't like it, then there is always Tescos.
    Happyregardless and dunnocks like this.
  12. knitone

    knitone Senior commenter

    This made me think of the child whose mother was always flying to the defence of her son, refusing to let him attend detentions or complete any sort of sanction designed to make him take responsibility for his own actions.
    Said child left, in the fullness of time, and took a job where the friend of one of the staff members worked. It was in this way that we learned that, as a result of poor time-keeping and attitude, the lad was sacked. Outraged, his mother hot-footed it to the place of business, declaring "You can't do that."
    Oh yes, they could - and did:)
  13. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    This posts a pretty bleak future. :(
    tonymars, thistledoo and pepper5 like this.
  14. Flowersinspring

    Flowersinspring Occasional commenter

    Working where I do we are told to **** off and called all sorts of inventive names most of the day. The pupils' behaviour is why they are with us and we accept that - we don't condone it though and we do challenge it in a non - confrontational way. Anyway- despite the seemingly insurmountable behavioural challenges and kids walking out or refusing to come into lessons- I think I prefer this to behaviour I've had in mainstream when the kids choose their behaviour for their own entertainment a lot of the time.
  15. pickles124

    pickles124 Established commenter

    2 boyfriends!! Is she a professional juggler? Lol
  16. pickles124

    pickles124 Established commenter

    I'm sorry but i do feel that the current education system is way too softy softy now. Can't do this, can't do that.

    Traumatic for kids? Seriously back in the day the cane would have been traumatic. Kids these days have got the life of Riley.
  17. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I totally agree. It is for entertainment. I get so fed up with people saying "All behaviour is communication" and so on. There are no fundemental underlying traumas or deprivations causing the selfishness i see all day every day, just that it is considered more fun to play up than to work.
  18. charlinda

    charlinda New commenter

    My husband is South American and he simply cannot believe how English pupils behave or should that be, do NOT behave. Coming from a country considered to be less developed than ours, he cannot understand why our pupils do not value their "free" education and make the most of it. I left teaching 2 years ago but when I used to tell him what my school was like I am sure that he simply did not believe me!! What a sorry mess.........
  19. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    When you start to have increasing numbers of people getting into school management who have no teaching experience and little empathy with children then you get trouble. The teachers get the blame for all the behaviour and you slowly allow the lunatics to run the asylum.

    Once you get there there is usually no way back and you lose most of your good teachers.

    It happened to the school down the road from us when they joined an MAT - had a complete clear out of the management and started with many people who had no education background.

    In many instances this is not going to work - sorry.
  20. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    I once worked for a school where Ofsted said the behaviour policy was outstanding. In theory and on paper it was. In practice it was unworkable and the actual behaviour was appalling.

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