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Death and religion

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Teslasmate, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    Being interested (not committed) in Christian Anarchism I am in agreement with all criticisms of established religions. The devil is having a field day in the churches and mosques etc., whatever.
    Fellowshipping with other Christians they listen politely and then go back to their worldly ways, going to church, listening (if not falling asleep) to the preacher or jumping up and waving their hands. Many do some good works but you do not have to be religious to do that, and although we have progressed materially, we have not progressed spiritually.
    Personally in my old age I am leaving it all to God.
  2. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I'm quite happy to go along with Don Cupitt (former Anglican priest - but they've disowned him now!).

    Don Cupitt's work asks if there can be a viable and cheerful non-realist philosophy of religion.

    Cupitt: From Law to Love
    Following Kant, Cupitt speaks of God as a guiding Ideal, an imaginary focus of religious aspiration.

    1-The religious life is lived just for its own sake, and not for any reward
    Realism practises religion dutifully for the sake of a heavenly payoff. Non-realism is much more spiritually advanced, because like Buddhism it teaches and demands thoroughgoing selflessness. The self is to be spent not saved.

    2-For realism, the existence of evil is fatal; for non-realism it defines our task
    The problem of evil is fatal to realistic theism, whereas for non-realism it does not arise. The world is our own somewhat-botched work of folk art, and its faults reflect ours.

    3-We must make the most of this, our only life
    Realists, like youthful suicide bombers, are too easily induced to waste their only life in the illusory hope of attaining heaven. Non-realists simply accept that we are transient, and live hard.
  3. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    It's about time religious zealots were put back in their box (or exiled somewhere cold...).

    This Tweet from the well known Scottish author Val McDermid shows what an excess of religion can lead to...

    Val McDermid‏Verified account@valmcdermid 35s36 seconds ago
    Val McDermid Retweeted JEAN DUNCAN

    Indeed. We were abused yesterday by a 'Christian' preacher on Glasgow's Buchanan Street for walking hand in hand! I was taken aback -- haven't experienced that sort of nonsense for years.
  4. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Two more from Cupitt.

    4-Critical thinking means questioning the value and status of our own religious ideas
    We already take a non-realistic view of other people's gods. The national gods of Egypt or the Norsemen were cultural projections, embodying cultural values. Accepting critical thinking obliges us to take the same view of our own religious objects. Resort to them if it helps, and if it doesn't, don't.

    5-The modern ethical state is in many respects ahead of the Church, which is now out of date
    During the 'Church' period of Christian history (c.AD48-AD1789), human beings were thought not yet ready to live the 'solar' ethic in the Sermon on the Mount. The state used a great deal of brute force to check people's violence to each other. But since the French Revolution the state has become ethical. It looks after us. Today, liberal democracy, the welfare state, the healing professions and our 'humanitarian' moral concern have created a world in which it is easy to see that we can and must live by the ethics of Jesus. Give blood? We do, now. And we can see that the Church is out of date in its attitude to women and gays.

    I don't diverge one iota from Cupitt.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  5. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Strangely enough, I think you are over complicating things if you start with genes then the other necessary changes follow rather than have to appear separately from everything else.
  6. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    I know once you've got A Cell, the rest follows on. I just can't visualise the process by which all the component chemicals that make a respiring, replicating cell so conveniently happened upon each other in just the right concentration and pH, sorted themselves into organelles and produced (well, acquired) a membrane.
  7. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Could you supply a link for the room details?
  8. Teslasmate

    Teslasmate Occasional commenter

    Which is not the domain of evolution. The question of how abiogenesis happened is fascinating. It's also not understood yet. It is in no way an argument for the existence of god or gods.But then that's what religion is doing these days - There's a gap in your knowledge, therefore goddidit. Wrong. If you have an alternate hypothesis then by all means present it. But I was overly generous above, god is not at the level of a hypothesis.
  9. Nellyfuf2

    Nellyfuf2 Established commenter

    I like that bit above, the bit about "energy flowing through the universe...…"

    Anyway. Christianity is on the decline. Even with C of E and RC schools fully on the job - and also other state schools apparently trying to convert innocent atheist children - by talking to them about Jesus and Heaven...…….

    Christianity is foundering. So I guess the opening poster should not really worry too much, or go up to school about it.....it all seems to be going very badly.....
    ……… leaving only the remnant…….

    Kids of that age are interested in Death. They begin to understand it. It's developmentally appropriate. Why not just let them develop their own thoughts within the framework of the things they see and hear around.

    Your daughter is highly unlikely to become a Christian and lead us all back to the dark ages unravelling time back to the Age of Reason, down the Renaissance, back through Medieval time and into the dark ages after the decline of Rome and all the way back to Golgotha. …………..
    she's far more likely to take up New Age healing and Paganism. Maybe a little Wicken along the way.
    InkyP and monicabilongame like this.
  10. Nellyfuf2

    Nellyfuf2 Established commenter

    Me? I hate those Aztecs! Sacrificing children, keeping slaves, all that.
    And as for Osiris?
    And I am sick of schools teaching my kids about that kind of thing.
    I know I live in society that is governed by the code of conduct of the ancient Sumerians, but well, really it is time we took all the legislature and government around us to pieces and replaced it with some sound anti religious laws and procedures.
    I am going up to the local school to complain...….
    I wish I lived in a society where difference was tolerated or better still, celebrated.
    InkyP likes this.
  11. Nellyfuf2

    Nellyfuf2 Established commenter

    Luckily I know what's best for everyone else.
    When I take charge, I'm going to round up all the religious fanatics, whatever their backgrounds and I'm just going to lock them all away together somewhere.
    InkyP likes this.
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    In the UK.
  13. Teslasmate

    Teslasmate Occasional commenter

  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    This is complete guff with connections to 19th Century German anti-Semitism. Let me set you straight, via Dr. William Lane Craig, lest you repeat this nonsense in public:

    You can hear Dr. Mark Foreman here from time 4:48:

    His presidential analogy is hilarious, and the original article can be found here:

  15. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Did I suggest the involvement of a deity? I don't think I did. It's not a one-or-the-other situation.

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