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Death and religion

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Teslasmate, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Again, what future do you think your child has at this school?

    How can she have one, given your attitude?

    If you feel so strongly, why don't you move to a different catchment area? You are right that many families don't have a personal faith but few will be so vehemently anti-Christian as you. Your position is that of a vegetarian going to a steak restaurant and objecting that they serve meat. They make their position absolutely clear. The problem in this situation is you. You shouldn't have gone anywhere near them in the first place.
    Alice K likes this.
  2. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Not even wrong.
  3. adam_nichol

    adam_nichol Occasional commenter

    Stuff being polite to religion.
    Amen. It has little real respect for anything other than itself, and is quick to show its true colours when given an opportunity.

    Children can make up their own minds
    I can remember being about 10 and at a CofE 1ry, when a couple of immigrant children were enrolled - can't remember where their origins were and as they didn't speak English, didn't get to know them too well. They were exempted from morning hymns (much miming) and I was aware their beliefs were different; but I can recall wondering what they'd feel like when they discover their beliefs were wrong. A few years of living abroad myself, I got a rather stark answer to that question.

    I enjoy guff like the tales of Achilles and Odysseus, or the Gods of the Norse (isn't the Ring completely ridiculous?) or the Fianna
    Ah, yes. The real issue is never secular v religion; it's always most common religion v everything else; any other idea must be destroyed before god is happy.
    Christianity is normalised as the 'correct' faith in this country; and it sickens me. People arriving from over the seas onto this island with different beliefs is the core of our history; but so far there's only been this one group who said not only do we have a different god, but it's the only god and you will all obey our doctrine or suffer the consequences in the next life and (more worryingly) this one. After 2 millennia of theft and murder (where those who dared to believe in unicorns or faer folk were scourged), the church is now finding itself marginalised and is claiming some sort of victim hood. Christianity has its poisonous tendrils in every facet of our society - tradition (mostly displaced from other faiths), language, government, education. For those of us who refuse to bend the knee, you get to see the scale of its influence. It makes me shudder.
  4. magic surf bus

    magic surf bus Star commenter

    I went to a C of E school, and my Methodist Sunday School teacher mother made me go to Sunday School until I was 10, which I hated. By high school I was being made to go to the C of E church by my mother because I was in Church Lad's Brigade. I was the only member of CLB in the village who went to church. At 14 I'd finally had enough and told her so.

    Consequently none of the religious sh*te that was foisted on me for the best part of a decade stuck. I still wonder why I never became a Satanist.

    Oddly enough I will still make the effort to visit cathedrals and other places of worship, but only because they're interesting subjects for photography. Their message is lost on me, for good.

    As an edited postscript - the vicar of the C of E church was a drunk who didn't half knock back the leftover communion wine. At one CLB meeting we were asked in a 'know your village' quiz where would we go to find the vicar. Some wag piped up "The Royal Oak" and he was right. Said vicar met up with a local widow at AA meetings and absconded with her to Norfolk to open an Off Licence, leaving wife and family behind in the vicarage. So much for Christian values eh?
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
    Ivartheboneless likes this.
  5. adam_nichol

    adam_nichol Occasional commenter

    1. Why should they have to move to avoid the influence of a faith they don't have. If all your local schools converted to Scientology, would you levy the same shut up or f-off dichotomy?
    2. They haven't met me then.
    3. The position is more of someone in a non-vegetarian restaurant (where eating at restaurants is mandatory) who wants vegetarian food for their children, only to discover bits of bacon in with the green beans. When they say stop putting things I don't want on the plate, they're told to eat elsewhere. Christianity's insidious rise to the top in this country was through centuries of possession of the things people needed - land, food, charity, government. If you didn't want the bible you got cast out and left to die alone. IMO, the time of the church is over, and its long overdue.
  6. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    In my experience it was generally members of sects like the Jehovah's Witnesses who did this, not atheists...
  7. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Why is your experience relevant? Anyone can make such a request.

    In my experience as a pupil, it was two atheist families who did it.
  8. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    I've just got confused which thread I was reading. For a moment I thought I was back on the https://community.tes.com/threads/mob-of-100-protest-against-gay-teacher.786749/ based on the way this argument is going.
  9. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Yes, absolutely. If I felt the same way as the OP, who talks about Christianity's "destructive lies", of course I would remove my child from the school. I would also lobby the local authority to provide an alternative or consider setting up my own free school with like-minded parents.

    Atheists are ten a penny. In itself, the stance does not make you special. It only becomes an issue if you send your child to a school knowing that their stance will come into conflict with your own beliefs.

    Nonsense. Eating in a particular type of restaurant isn't mandatory. You can move to an area which has different types of restaurant, set up your own restaurant or have your child eat at home. Parents with particularly strong beliefs often do the latter. If your atheism is fanatical, you should follow their example.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Ah, those enlightened Romans.


    How we miss them.
  11. adam_nichol

    adam_nichol Occasional commenter

    So, if I don't want my children to be drip-fed a belief system I have to move house away from friends, family, and support networks or set up my own school (regardless of my capability to educate all subjects to all levels)? At what point does that sound like a reasonable solution? Why is the burden upon me to build a wall of separation around my child? Why does Christianity get to intrude upon my life simply because it exists in the surrounding area? I am not demanding Christians believe something different, so why do they get to tell me what to do? I am not inclined to run until I am beyond their current reach.

    This is the nub of the issue - this default that because it's the church, it's ok for them to do whatever; and anyone who has a problem with it is automatically in the wrong and is the one who must change. Well, sorry, but I ain't inclined to let them ride roughshod over me.
    Teslasmate likes this.
  12. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    That misrepresents me. I can enjoy great stories. Jesus and the wine, or Jesus and Lazarus. The life and death of Jesus and similar tales but I was referring to great tales of other times and places that are older than Christianity. Christianity also has its tales as do Islam, Hinduism, Confucianism and so on. All of them and most importantly the predominant religion in a time and place need to be moderated by accepting the human condition.
  13. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    And the vast majority (unlike JWs, say) didn't. So you have a good chance that's who your child will be put with!

    NB is it too much to ask for schools NOT to indoctrinate children with fairy tales?o_O
  14. adam_nichol

    adam_nichol Occasional commenter

    Fair enough. Apologies for misrepresenting you.
    racroesus likes this.
  15. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    You have to decide whether the need for your support networks is greater than your objection to them being "drip-fed a belief system".

    Any parent whose educational needs aren't catered for locally has to face this decision.
    No, the nub of the issue is above. "The church" per se doesn't come into it. You object to the education your local school provides. Either you compromise or, if your principles are as strong as you make out, you start living by them.
  16. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    In the Seventies, in Northern Ireland, I was able, as a young teacher, to refuse to take religious assemblies.
  17. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    I don't know why you are hung up on Jehovah's Witnesses. This personal anecdote is irrelevant to the discussion.

    As I stated above, if you have a principled stance against a school's ideology, you should act on those principles.
  18. nomad

    nomad Star commenter


    His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. After his death, he rose from the grave and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his miraculous power, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as “the Son of God! (Apollonius of Tyana)

    He was the mediator between God and man, he helps departed souls ascend to heaven, and he will judge the human race at the end of the world. He shed the blood of an innocent to wash away the sins of the world and established a sacred meal ritual where flesh and blood were symbolically consumed by initiates. His birthday falls near the end of the year, on December 25. (Mithras)

    He was conceived miraculously and visited while still an infant by wise men who were guided to him by a star. He lived in a small province whose evil ruler sought to have him killed before he could rise to power, but his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who instructed them to take their child to a neighboring district, where he would be safe from the slaughter. Hewould come to grow up and perform many great deeds, and the timeless and moving story of his life was recounted throughout history and still rings true today. (Krishna)

    Etc., etc., (Prometheus and Osiris)
    racroesus likes this.
  19. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    It's clear where the closed minds, anger & intolerance are coming from in this thread.
    InkyP and sparklesparkle like this.
  20. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    But its still way more believable than the cult of Corbyn.
    nomad likes this.

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