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Dear Joe - KS3 NC Targets in MFL

Discussion in 'Modern foreign languages' started by kittylion, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    I have searched the forums on this so I know it has been discussed before but I am still having some problems getting it straight in my mind.

    What levels would you expect pupils in Years 7, 8 and 9 to achieve at the end of each year? How do you work them out - FFT? CAT scores? KS2 results?

    Does your school set the targets for you or are you allowed to set them yourself,

    I have been given targets of L5 and L6 for my year 7 group which I am a bit dismayed about as that would mean teaching them all three tenses in Year 7 - aaarrgh!!

    Does anyone else have the same problem?
     
  2. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    I have searched the forums on this so I know it has been discussed before but I am still having some problems getting it straight in my mind.

    What levels would you expect pupils in Years 7, 8 and 9 to achieve at the end of each year? How do you work them out - FFT? CAT scores? KS2 results?

    Does your school set the targets for you or are you allowed to set them yourself,

    I have been given targets of L5 and L6 for my year 7 group which I am a bit dismayed about as that would mean teaching them all three tenses in Year 7 - aaarrgh!!

    Does anyone else have the same problem?
     
  3. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    When I ws teaching MFL L4, 5 and 6 were the likely levels for Yr 9 at my then schools!
    Have your pupils all studied the languages on their timetable to a significant level in KS2?
     
  4. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    Not really - they have all done different languages at primary school and some have done very little or none at all. I consider them to be beginners. They are a top set but one is supposed to get a 6b!!
     
  5. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    That's ridiculous!
    I guess that your school is using their Literacy and Numeracy NC Levels from the end of KS2 and is projecting high MFL levels for those who were Level 5 or 6 in Literacy.
    It's not based on MFL linguistic competence and guessing in this way based on unrelated data is meaningless. It would be much better to level all pupils on their current MFL competence this term or at the end of YR7 and use that considered assessment of what they can actually achieve as the basis for setting their end of KS3 target.
     
  6. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    I agree they're using one of those projected models, which bear little or no reality to what children can actually achieve.
    Even if children had studied a language for 4 years at Primary, it would be unrealistic to expect Level 6b in Year 7. The use of 6b suggests they've not used an MFL calculator as, correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't generally use a,b & c in MFL?
    If they're mostlybeginners it would take a lot to get the majority up to level 3 by the end of the year, in my opinion
     
  7. Random175

    Random175 New commenter

    Pupils are supposed to show 3 levels progress from KS2 - KS4. The levels you have been given must be based on KS2 literacy. Do you do base-line tests? If you did it might help as you could then suggest realistic targets.
     
  8. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    Thanks for your reply Random. Do you mean base-line tests in MFL?
     
  9. Random175

    Random175 New commenter

    Yes base-line tests in MFL in year 7 somewhere during the first half term.
     
  10. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    Thanks Random - I think we used to do that when I first started 20+ years ago lol - what goes around ...

    Thanks to everyone for their responses.

    I was wondering if there were any guidelines or a website somewhere or any agreed way of working out the levels which I was unaware of, but it looks as though there isn't.

    Thanks again all!
     
  11. mflnqt

    mflnqt New commenter

    I think it may depend on your school/type of kids. (I know my name on here is mflnqt however I am in my 3rd year of teaching now.)
    Before I changed schools at the end of last term. I had a top set Y7 whose end of year 9 targets are level 7. This was based on KS2 literacy and numeracy.
    As the pupils did MFL in KS2 through out school liason (taught by me) they came with a decent grounding to start with. We conducted baseline test within the first half term to get a level they were around a level 2.
    When i left at Xmas the vast majority of my Y7's were working at a level 4c.
    Double check the targets you have been given and make sure that they are end of Y7 and not end of KS3. I normally go by Level 4 end of Y7 Level 5 end of Y8 Level 6/7 end of Y9.
     
  12. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    They are definitely end of Year 7. I think that mine were probably at a level 4 by about Christmas too - still not sure how to award sub-levels - but certainly in reading they were for example. They are a top set (not setted by MFL - must be on KS2 results) but even within the top set there is a spread of ability.

    I have been teaching off and on since the eighties - you'd think I'd have got the hang of it by now lol - but this is the first time I have been expected to teach three tenses in Year 7. TBH I probably just won't do it if I think it is not the best way for them and will just have to award the level I think they are at.

    I keep thinking - is there some documentation I have missed? Perhaps there is a table of expected NC levels children should reach at the end of each year according to what - KS2 results, CAT scores FFT? There doesn't seem to be anything like that that I know of. There seems to be a consensus that this is too high level for Year 7 but I have nothing concrete to show to anyone.

    They have the same targets I think for other subjects too - I think English and Humanities and possibly ICT but am not sure about that. It makes it look as though they are underperforming in languages. How am I supposed to motivate them? Grrr.
     
  13. cake4tea

    cake4tea New commenter

    Hi!

    The new system - 2 levels of progress in KS3 and one more in KS4 - has led to MFL levels being linked to English. So, if a kid gets L5 in English, he / she would be xpected to hit L7 by the end of Y9 in all literacy based subjects - Langs., History, Geog., etc. We have tried to mitigate this in Y7 and Y8 by aiming for English minus 2 levels in Y7 and English minus 1 in Y8. The targets are still largely absurd, but at least they are a tapered to compensate for the fact that the majority have done little or nothing in KS2.
    Happy New Year!
     
  14. salsera

    salsera New commenter

    Interesting debate, as I joined a school in Sept and have seen that one of the teachers has put levels of 4a after one term of French. With some of the year 8 classes they take in Autumn term the year 8 students in an average middle set have been given levl 5c....and the top set year 8 Autumn term 6c!! This has astounded me.
    However the pressure to use levels and sublevels to show progress is not what was intended when NC levels came out as they are to indicate what had been acheived at EKS3, yet all schools have come up with some wonderful formula to project targets and monitor progress, and it seems we have to comply otherwise we are beaten with a very big stick. And every school is different it seems
     
  15. Random175

    Random175 New commenter

    The target for year 9 is pretty much set in stone. It is getting more realistic targets in year 7 and 8 that is often what is needed. Most of our children's targets are a level 3 at the end of year 7 with a couple of exceptions and then a level 4c - 5a by the end of year 8 (with a few notable exceptions at either end). If they start 'traffic-lighting' the children's attainment to their silly year 7 targets then the children will be very demotivated. If they report this to parents they will not be pleased - you might find a few irate parental phone calls to SLT will soon bring SLT around to more realistic targets !!
     
  16. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It would make more sense to pupils and parents if the targets were things like :
    To improve vocabulary by learning X new words per week;
    To learn the endings of regular AR verbs in the Presnt/Preterite/Imperfect/Future etc;
    To learn the following useful Irregular verbs in the above tenses ..........;
    To know where to place adjectives in a sentence;
    To know numbers 1-30 or 1-100 etc;
    To know the months of the year, days of the week and seasons;
    To aim for more accurate spelling of foreign words;
    To be able to pronounce common words accurately;
    To be able to find words in a dictionary.
    My EYFS teacher sister is getting very irritated by the targets and NC levels given to her Yr 8 daughter. I don't know how a,,b,c divisions work as they are not specified anywhere in NC documentation and I get mixed up when hearing them used as I don't know if an a is better than a b or c or whether the C is the culmination of achieving all level 6 attributes. Anyway, my niece is being given targets for a lower grade C sub-division in some subjects when she has already been awarded a higher subdivision a term ago!
    It's clearly a robotic, mindless 'assessment' exercise by the teachers as we all know that the descriptors are nonsense that mechanistically describe aspects of output without distinguishing on quality. They published two pupils' Literacy pieces in the Guardian a few years ago. Both achieved a Level 4 for their work yet one was superb writing and the other was virtually unreadable.
     
  17. runaway

    runaway New commenter

    It would be more sensible if being forced to do this sort of exercise in line with other subjects to look at what they are expected to achieve by end of key stage 3 and then work backwards. Of course it's not what the NC levels were designed for but...

    If it helps I've uploaded a resource with sublevels from NC1-6 high (labelled a b c) for use with ks3 under the name MFL Personal Learning Plan (or something similar) which are word docs so you can adapt and change. The levels are what two schools working together came up with but actually it doesn't really matter what you put in them as long as everyone in the dept use the same. Went for specifics and detail rather than simplified to help with target setting.

    We stopped at high 6 because after that the levels pretty much equate to GCSE so makes more sense to use that especially for KS4
     
  18. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    If the Scheme of Work for MFL in YR7 only caters for introducing the Present tense, someone should be telling SMT that Levels 5 and 6 are completely unattainable for any pupils.
     
  19. kittylion

    kittylion Established commenter

    Well of course the SOW is down to the department so we would have to change it - we do do some simple future tense towards the end of Y7 though.
     
  20. salsera

    salsera New commenter

    Yup! Yup! and Yup! Jubilee, I agree totally.

     

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