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Daytime naps

Discussion in 'Parenting' started by Lohman, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. Hi all,
    Just after some advice. LO is almost 5 months old now and I'm having real problems getting him to sleep in the day. Night time's aren't such an issue as I tend to BF him if he won't settle and this usually sorts him out. But during the day I don't like to do this as I have always had lots of problems with BF and soreness so the less I can feed the better - in any case I'm sure he's not hungry. We tend to have a 3hour routine during the day. This is his doing and not mine - we don't have any set times but generally after his feed he is awake for up to 2 hours and then needs a sleep and then he needs feeding again after 3 hours. So there are quite a few sleeps in the day where I'm finding it difficult. He gets very whingey after he's been awake for about 1.5 hours so I know he is tired. But just lately I am finding it more and more difficult to get him to sleep. When he finally does sleep it varies from 10mins to 1 hour but he is then in a better mood (after the feed which happens straight after waking). He is still in moses basket that is on a rocking stand and he has a screaming fit before every sleep. I then have to calm him down and constantly rock him in the basket or in my arms to get him to shut his eyes. I am worried because he will soon be growing out of the moses basket and will have to go in his cot - so no rocking then! I know he must be fighting the sleep but I don't know what to do to help him. I turn the lights out, sing to him, put music on, talk to him calmly, stroke his face etc. But the screaming fits seem to be getting worse.I've read about controlled crying but not sure if he's too young .... or if I can do it. Anyone have any good tips?
  2. all_heart

    all_heart New commenter

    How strange, my LO is nearly 5 months and she's been fighting one of her day naps out of the blue, she won't even sleep on me which is her favourite place to sleep and my fall proof back up plan! I wonder if it's in their age - I've heard about the 4 month sleep regression where their sleep cycle (REM stage etc...) changes, could it be linked?

    Sorry it's not an answer, but a pattern could point you in the right direction.
  3. Hi lohman,

    Happy New Year! I wrote a day time napping thread on here a couple of months ago... we do seem to worry over same things you and me!!!
    Anyway my little girl in coming up for 7 months. when she was 5 and 1/2 months old I was struggling to get her to sleep in the day unless she fell asleep on me feeding, i was driving somewhere or walking her in the pram. Got to the point where i was walking 3x a day with pram to get her to nap or she would scream on me until she fell asleep in my arms.
    Changing to a cot heleped as i think it was just a much thicker nicer mattress than the thin moses basket ones and she had more room (she is not a big baby but this still seemed to help).
    One day I cried on my sisters shoulder as i hadn't slept that night as up again and again feeding and yet still had to do the 3 pram walks a day to get the naps in! I was a total wzlking zombie and very down. She basically said to me that at some point I was going to have to 'crack' the daytime napping and i was finally desperate enough to confront it. I started to note down her 'routine' for the day. it varied as she gets up at diff times/feeds more/less on diff days etc but i could see pattern that she needed to nap every 3 hours. I stayed at home a lot and just watched her carefully.
    When she rubbed her eyes, yawned, whined I made sure she had a dry nappy on and put her in a grobag and put her in her cot in a darkish room with a little blanket she loves. I stayed with her and gently patted her but didn't pick her up out of the cot. She cried a lot and i felt like a *** but it was tired crying and I didn't leave her. After 30 mins she was sound asleep. I did this several times, the crying became less. i started to leave her for a few mins and pop back to check on her. Within a week she was napping in her cot.
    No doubt plenty of people will think Im a dreadful parent for doing this but frankly you make the decision that seems right for the circumstance. I was a wreck and my baby was tired. Now I feel very different and she wakes up refreshed and beaming. Having proper naps has made her so much more cheerful and I feel sane again, like I came out of a dark fog.Letting your baby cry is not nice. I feel I have done the right thing though.
    I know you have had lots of feeding worries and ongoing pain- I empathise. When I got over our feeding problems which totally dominated my life for 4 months the next thing I worried non stop about was lack of naps! It WILL improve Lohman xxx
    i know you
  4. Ooops Just tried to edit my long post and tes wouldn't let me for some reason! Please ignore the sinister sounding 'I know you' at the end of my post. Don't know how it ended up there!!! Ha!
  5. Hi Ladymarm and Happy New Year!! Thanks for your reply - and upping your previous thread for me.
    I have started to try him in the cot for the past few days without success - he just screams. He is just much worse than he used to be - I am having to jig him about in my arms which I never used to do. And as soon as I put him down he starts again and I have to rock him really quick to get him to close his eyes again. If I'm not quick enough with the rocking after putting him down then we have to repeat the whole jigging thing over again. I will have to keep trying the cot though as he will need to be in it soon. Yesterday I tried letting him cry a bit but then caved in. I don't think you're bad at all for doing this and I think I will have to do this at some point. It's just a case of bringing myself to do it!
    I still have feeding problems - taking fluconazole again for thrush - have awful stabbing pains again. Did you get your feeding and thrush all sorted in the end - did you get the stabbing pains? I'm having to take painkillers all the time again. Can I ask how your LO sleeps in the night? Have you weaned now? I keep speaking to people with much younger ones than me and theirs are all sleeping through the night - a lot of them formula fed - but some BF. We had a spell ages ago now where he was only waking once but for the past 4/5 weeks it's been 3 times a night again. I'm very sad but thinking of stopping BF as I have so many problems with it. Wanted to get to 6 months so I could start weaning and BF less but that's still 1 month away and I believe that they still BF almost as much anyway.
    Hope you had a nice Christmas x
  6. chicabonita

    chicabonita New commenter

    You poor thing, it sounds awful. Breastfeeding can be exhausting- Chiquita is 11 months nearly and still loves the boob, and she's regressed a bit with it lately as she has been quite ill. But in terms of weaning,
    not necessarily. I started Chiquita at 5 months with some Ella's Kitchen purees. She had been very interested in food, sucking apples, that sort of thing, for a while, and she was on three meals a day by six months. By seven months she was having just 3 feeds a day (early, mid-afternoon and then bedtime) which dropped to 2 a couple of weeks after that. I know it's another two months but thought I would offer it if you really don't want to give up feeding and need a light in the darkness!
  7. Hello lohman,
    I think you are right. You will 'confront' the napping when you feel ready.
    Sorry you are having the feeding problems- so frustrating. Did you have any luck with the telephone numbers undiwear gave you? It is horrible to be in pain. I got a blister on the end of my nipple from being 'lazy' about latch about 6 weeks ago again and all the old dread of feeding and tearfulness came right back to me. Awful. It also got stabbing pains throughout the breast and this reminded me of things undiwear has said. i think for me the trauma to nipple caused the stabbing and think probably i never hasd thrush- althoughat the time it was worth pursuing that problem.
    Is it worth trying to see someone about it again? Although you may move onto formula soon maybe you will want to bf again in the future and it would be so wonderful for you to find the cause of the pain once and for all, if that is possible? Hope so. Do you have trauma to your nipples? now you are out of the 'early days' do you feel able to get on the phone and try and organise visiting someone or getting someone to watch you feed at home?
    I'm still bfeeding I'm very happy to say. LO has never slept therough the night! It changes and she has had growth spurts (one around 6 months Im afraid...) when she is more wakeful but mainly i feed her 2 times a night. 3 times a night is not that unusual for us either. The diffenrence nowadays is i can put her down and she go back to sleep herself now and i get straight back to sleep until the next feed.
    I started weannig with a little bit of runny baby rice at 24 weeks, just once a day at first. Now at 7 months she is offered bits and bobs- some puree and some finger foods 3 times a day. it has been a very positive tihng for her dad who felt a bit excluded during the full on bfeeding times. Yes I still feed about the same. if you do switch to formula soon what an amazing job you have done getting this far when it has been so so hard. I am going to buy some formula to have in the house as I would like to go to a birthday party in a month (just until late evening)and leave Dad in charge for the evenig for the first time ever, but at the mo she wont take a bottle and I dont have the confidence to leave her not knowing if she would feed from a bottle if she woke whilst i was 1/2 hour drive away! The thought of her being hungry fillls me with horror.
    Anyway look forward to hearing from you x

  8. This is probably not what you want to hear but my LO still fights naps at 14 months. He will go down at night ok but daytime naps - I hate them. At night we do use controlled crying - well have done in the past - not necessary anymore but in the day he rolls, stands up and tries to climb out of his cot so not possible now.
    Hope you get it sorted
  9. Ladymarm - I did call a couple of numbers back when I was having problems before and I go to a breastfeeding clinic at the hospital most weeks which is for problem cases eg. thrush etc. I never found anyone that would come to my home to watch feeding but when I have fed at the hospital I have been told that latch and positioning look good. HV also watched me feed once and said the same. There have been several people that have watched me feed. I doalways seem to have some kind of nipple trauma - have white bits on the tips that come and go - think they seem to be bits of dead skin that grow over the nipples. Sometimes get blisters but haven't had one for a while. I didn't know the stabbing pains could be caused by nipple trauma - it comes on up to 1hr after feeding and sometimes feels like the inside is burning. I think it is easing a bit so maybe the fluconazole is working - or latch has been getting better - who knows? I've seen my GP several times about it all and nobody seems to be able to tell me what it is.
    Glad that your night time routine is better now. LO goes back to sleep without any problems during the night feeds - but then I can still not get to sleep for about 1hr - and then it doesn't leave long before we're awake and feeding again. Just lately he has been waking more often than every 3 hours in the night so he's obviously not getting enough - but he has a habit of falling asleep on the boob during the night and I try to wake him but don't always manage to get him to drink more. He tends to chew me a bit at this point so I have to take him off.
    I know what you mean about leaving LO. I haven't done it yet but others mums I speak to (with babies younger than mine) seem to leave them regularly and go out. To be honest I'm not bothered about doing that yet - would be nice once in a while but I wouldn't make a habit of it. Have you tried giving her the milk in a sippy cup? Or if she won't take it from that, from some other kind of beaker? You could start giving her a bit that way each day or two to try and get her used to it.
    Hope it works out with the bottle/beaker. I'll let you know how I get on this week - finish the fluconazole on Friday!
    Bradley - no, not what I wanted to hear but at least you're honest and I don't feel like I have THE most difficult baby in the world if others are also struggling with daytime naps. I keep thinking maybe he doesn't need to sleep as often as I'm trying to make him. But he gets very whingy so he must be tired. Am going to try and get him in a better routine this week - god knows how!!!
  10. With thrush as well as taking the Fluconazole you could try taking acidophilus tablets from Holland and Barrett. I've only had thrush once but managed to catch it early and took the acidophilus tablets which meant I didn't end up needing to persuade my GP that I'm allowed to take Fluconazole (and persuade him that it's actually fine to STILL be breastfeeding at 20 months). The good bacteria helps get rid of the thrush.
    You definitely won't want to hear that my lo still fights naps at 22 months. I have given up all hope that she will sleep in a cot, so we got rid of that. She has a proper single bed which she sleeps fine in at night (unless ill or teething when she comes in to us and keeps me awake all night wanting to be fed, like last night) Daytime naps are fine with the childminder, she just puts her in a buggy and leaves her in the kitchen and she goes to sleep. At home with me I have to go and lie down with her and feed her to sleep, or she sometimes naps in the buggy when out for a walk, or in the car if we go out at the right time. I have actually got used to feeding her to sleep for a nap now though, and quite look forward to an enforced quiet time in the middle of the day, it's a shame it's only weekends and holidays I get to do it.
  11. By the way, I was one of those smug mums who had a baby who slept through at 8 weeks and she napped beautifully when she was little. It all went downhill around 6 months. So don't be too disheartened, a lot of my friends who had problems with their lo's sleeping when they were tiny have now got their full nights sleep back while I am having problems with mine now she's a toddler, although as I say, mostly when she's ill or teething.
  12. I am NO expert but this ongoing nipple trauma is such a source of misery, could you afford to get a lactation consultant to come to you? When i looked into it it was around £150. Sure undiwear could advise. bet there are lots around you as you are in an urban area and close to several big cities. If you have this soreness/whiteness/flaky skin it just sounds like something isn't quite right.
    Yes I am offering a sippy cup and traditional bottle with teat every day. she thinks it is very funny, chews the teat and then throws them on the floor -will persevere.
    PS I had a period of not sleeping between sleeps which has got better now, esp since she moved into her own room. All the best xxx
  13. My LO is a reluctant napper, she's 7 months old. Sometimes she will go down ok and sleep, although never for longer than 30 minutes, then other times its a nightmare.
    I look for the eye rubbing, ear tugging, disinterest in her toys and neck nuzzling and take her up stairs (black out blind is always up and no lights) put her in her gro bag and sit and cuddle and quitly chat, soothe, stroke her hair and when she looks like she is drifing I put her in the cot. Sometimes I play her Tomy lullaby star when we're having our quiet cuddle.
    Good luck, if you find the cure let us know!
  14. Hiya,
    Sorry if I'm repeating what others have said, as I haven't read all of the other posts in detail.
    It sounds to me like LO needs to learn how to get himself off to sleep. At the minute, he's falling asleep on your breast, or when you're rocking him. That's fine for now.. But not for when he cuts down on feeds, or when he moves in to a cot (as you said).
    The Baby Whisperer AKA Tracy Hogg has a great 'shush/ pat' method you could try. I could explain, but you might be best off reading her books, as has much more detail. It helps to get babies to self soothe and can be tricky to establish but pays off.
    I used her methods when LO was about 3 months and HATED going to a nap. When he did nap, it was for 20 minutes and I'd have to rock him to sleep or push his pram back and forth. Nightmare! But after the shush/ pat, I could put him down in his cot and he'd be asleep within minutes, and would nap for longer and at the same time each day.
    LO is now nearly 2, and goes straight down for a nap, and to sleep at night.
  15. Thanks for all the advice. Unfortunately things are worse now though. And the problem has switched to night time feedings. LO is 2 weeks off 6 months now and he is waking up every 2hrs for feeds during the night. Sometimes it's 1.5hrs and only occasionally can he go 3 hours or a bit more. I don't understand what's changed with him as he used to only be up once or twice and this past week he's been up some nights 6 times. The daytime naps are still not good - but I have started breastfeeding him to sleep in the day (in my bed) and then he will sleep a bit. At night time he is also in bed with me because I'm just so exhausted now that I cannot keep getting up out of bed so find it slightly easier with him in with me. I have spoken to HV who said he may need some food now so I have been giving him some baby rice. I really didn't want to do ths as I was keen to do baby led weaning but I am just desperate to keep him asleep longer at night. Up to now the rice has made no difference - but have only been giving him a bit for the last 3 days. Is there anything I should be doing that might help?
  16. Breastmilk is way more calorific than almost any solid food you can offer so if you wanted to stop the baby rice you could - I'm surprised a HV recommended it! It sounds like you're doing all the right things. I know this won't be any consolation to you but your LO sounds absolutely normal. Is he sitting/rolling/crawling? It may be a developmental leap, it may be the day time is so exciting he just wants to feed at night when it's quiet. You could try cluster feeding in the evenings or upping his feeds in the day to see if it makes a difference, but it's probably just something he'll outgrow. We've done the every 90 minutes thing as well but now at a year we get some longer stretches (and some two-hourly wake ups!) - there's not really and rhyme or reason to it, she's just got there in her own time :)
  17. Everyone will have their own opinion on this- so here's mine. I agree with your hv. Baby rice isn't going to cut it though. Why not try a mixture of purées and BLW. If lo is hungry then giving them a plate of food that they haven't yet learnt to pick up and eat is not going to fill their tummy. No advice about the naps though- sorry. All these theories are well and good- but you have to make them work for you, your lifestyle and your family. Good luck.
  18. If your LO is able to sit well, reach out and grab at food and has lost their tongue thrust reflex, there's no reason why you couldn't start BLW if you thought he was ready - we started at just over 5.5 months, very slowly :)
  19. Thanks for the advice - I agree with both of you. Last night he was only up 3 times so that's an improvement. I wouldn't mind so much if I could get back to sleep easily but I seem to have struggled with sleep since I had him. I don't know why this is as I am really tired.
    The problem with offering him more feeds in the day or cluster feeding is that he won't take it - he just has a quick suck and then comes off. I've tried keep putting him back on but it just makes me sore as he's on and off. Anyway, I'll see if I can temp him with some more milk today!!
  20. Hi Lohman,

    My lo is 15 weeks and for the last 3 weeks has been waking up 4 times each night. She's sleeping with me because I would be getting absolutely no sleep if I was trying to settle her in her cot (she hates it!). During the day she will only nap on me following bf or in the pram. We go to groups 3 mornings a week so she tends to have her morning naps in the pram and her afternoon naps are on me. I think, at the end of the day, you have to do whatever makes the day easier for you and lo. I know some are v against co sleeping, but if I was getting any less sleep, I wouldn't have the energy to do lovely things with her during the day.

    I'm too soft to try controlled crying so I've ordered the 'no cry sleep solution' book as it is written from a breastfeeding, co sleeping perspective. I'll report back if we have any success!

    Bumbly x

    (apologies for any typos - writing this on my phone)

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