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Daily rates v long term rates?

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by clairemullen, Dec 19, 2019.

  1. clairemullen

    clairemullen New commenter

    Good evening. I'm new to supply teaching and just want some guidance on pay and conditions please: should I expect to be paid a higher rate when undertaking long term positions that require marking, a tutor group, duties, meetings and parents' evenings? Agencies tell me they negotiate with the school but the best they have come up with is £12 per day more than a daily rate without these responsibilities. Is this the current state of affairs for most of you? I realise that UPS3 pay is unlikely even after the 12 week clause but £60 per week extra for working as what is essentially a fully fledged member of the department seems very unfair. What do you think guys? Thank you.
     
  2. Jesmond12

    Jesmond12 Star commenter

    When my SBM was negotiating rates with agencies ( I had the final say) we would pay a lower rate if the cover was long term.

    Our reason being that the booking was long term and guaranteed. We would pay extra if the member of staff was required to attend a parents evening and we would pay the daily rate if we wanted the supply to attend INSET.

    If you really want the booking then I would play hardball with the agency. Tell them what you want and stick with it. I do daily primary supply but if I accepted a longer term booking then I would expect around £20 more than my usual daily rate.

    Make sure that you get PPA time.
     
  3. Deirds

    Deirds Senior commenter

    Do I take it you have a different perspective these days?

    OP - my experience is £10 per day extra so £12 is doing quite nicely, thank you very much. Don’t query it, grab the mone6 and run...

    Parents Evenings I gather are different.... John Carzola is the one to advise..
     
  4. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    Yes you should but you'll soon clash with agency views that you should be paid as little as they can get away with. This is their Christmas bonus you're messing with.

    Supply pay is purely negotiation, my approach is to say
    "I'm sorry but that is not enough. I appreciate that you'll have done the best you can but I can't accept it."
    As a result I've gained £200+ daily for most of the year and even the low points (£145 a day) could be quickly pushed up. Hardly any unemployment as well.

    I have several advantages though
    1. I'm Maths/Science in West Yorks, very shortage and I'm half-decent at both.
    2. I don't mind bottom-end schools, they're the most desperate.
    3. The mortgage flew away a year ago so unemployment is a risk I can take as a few weeks off isn't an existential threat.
    4. I see networking as an essential part of the job so I'm constantly identifying the ones to butter up /disregard and act accordingly and make sure my volunteering is noted by the right ones.
    5. Agencies are now used to my demands so don't mess around with farcical rates. This is helped by my certainty that I'm the last they'll ring so I can push hard.
    You'll notice that there's not even a moral qualm above, "But what about the children?" so I'll leave you to judge if selling my soul for a few tenners a day is worth it.

    One last tip, whenever you see a supply ask them what they are on for that gig and offer yours of course. The main advantage agencies have is market knowledge and the more sharing we can do of our knowledge the better.
    I'm on £175 a day in a school that is very unpleasant for supply teachers but as it's only this week (even tomorrow) then I'll bear it.
     
    tonymars likes this.
  5. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    Sorry my post was written before I read this.

    I give parents' evenings for 'free'. That is I will normally attend and make it plain by email that I am volunteering. Similarly attending after school meetings and open evenings. My view is that I have already negotiated the extra pay as part of the package and it is far too difficult to get any extra payment given the Supply => agent => cover organiser => HoD = SLT that has to be communicated over to get the money confirmed.

    Simultaneously I am trying to worm out of as many duties/marking/pointless meetings/intervention as I can and the fact that I've ostensibly volunteered can help as not volunteering is also an option.

    I am doing a dodgy balancing act though. I shouldn't overuse the power that comes from the question, "Can we manage without Mr Cazorla?" as some schools have found the wrong answer to that. But another one keeps coming along.

    Lucky me?
     
    BetterNow likes this.
  6. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Occasional commenter

    My first long term booking was £7.50 more per day and the last two have been £15 more. My ordinary rate is £115. I haven't been paid extra for parents' evenings although these have been held directly after school or off timetable during the day and after school (up to 6pm) so a bit different to traditional evening appointments like in secondary school.
     
  7. clairemullen

    clairemullen New commenter

    Thank you for all the replies. The booking is in a brilliant school and I guess I'm very lucky to be offered £12 per day extra from what you've said. Just saddens me that teachers are pushed to UPS3 then punished for being expensive! My £12 per day extra is £57 per day lower than my pay scale. Do the maths :(
     
  8. HS65

    HS65 New commenter

    Like you I’m UPS3 ... daily rates haven’t been great, £110 - £135. With one agency who I insisted I wouldn’t take less than £130 I’ve not had any work since.
    Longer term has been better, £150 for one last year that went up to M6 rate of £179. Not without a fight. Another where I was on UPS3 rate of £202.
    After Christmas I’m doing a long term one direct with a school ..... UPS3 agreed including the pay rise. They were keen not to use an agency for this.

    I believe little of what the agencies tell me ..... I know for a fact having become friendly with one headteacher that we were both being spun lines by an agency.
     
  9. clairemullen

    clairemullen New commenter

    It's mental really- £138 for general supply or £150 for long term with all the extra responsibility! What is the incentive?? Might as well be permanent and pay my pension!? BUT, I am thankful to be working and the school have given me more PPA than I should have. Daylight robbery but better than nothing eh?
     
  10. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    I find the other posts quite confusing. You give the impression that daily rates are set in stone. They're not. They are still negotiable and you can be certain that the agency has negotiated furiously with the school about the wonderful teacher (that's you) they're providing. Notice that there is no mention below of your actual quality as it is irrelevant to all parties.

    Do you have the nerve to do this at 7:36am when the call comes in?
    1. Make sure you're already dressed and ready to go immediately.
    2. Drag the call out.
      I show interest and ask a few questions.
      Because the agent is under serious time pressure, he's already promised a wonderful teacher to the school and has to ring back asap. Delay here means there's less chance of giving up on you and finding the next one.
    3. Disregard the school quality
      Even if you know it's a hellish place then say to yourself, "They'll pay more if I'm the only one who'll go there"
    4. Always ask the rate, but only at the very end of the conversation.
      Then say "I'm sorry but I can't accept that, I appreciate you'll have done the best you can for me but it's not enough". Don't necessarily name figures that you will accept (I keep forgetting this one myself).
    DISCLAIMER: I'm much more long-term so I've not done this often. As I'm expensive then I must be the last one they'll ring so my silly games have to be endured as there's no-one else.
     
  11. supplybychoice

    supplybychoice New commenter

    All rates are negotiable. Just refuse to take long term work unless they pay you to scale. I know someone doing a year supply getting £190 a day.
     
  12. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    I know someone who can’t even last a term but still gets £200+ a day.
    Oh, that’s me! (Sorry about the gloating but I have drunk a bit).
    You’re clearly applying ethics, consideration and morality to supply. DON’T DO IT. Only the unprincipled thrive. That’s supply agencies and me.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  13. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    Some agencies offer teachers a rate lower than daily supply for longer-term positions; the 'logic' being that teachers should pay for the privilege of a more regular income. With daily supply being scarcer than long term positions, I suppose agencies think that this is acceptable practice.
     
    BetterNow and agathamorse like this.
  14. MissGeorgi

    MissGeorgi Occasional commenter

    Always bargain hard. Be polite and persuasive. Remind them how hard you work.
    I’m normally M6- on supply I’m £130 daily rate or £180 long term rate. Sometimes a bit less at the start. Remember AWR kicks in after 12 weeks. Don’t accept less. If the school has met you and liked you, dig your heels in like crazy.
     
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  15. BetterNow

    BetterNow Occasional commenter

    Don't you find work dries up quickly (and suspiciously) though? I’m convinced one of mine goes along with the pay, then work goes quiet for a period after as though they’re getting their money back. I know it sounds a bit tinfoil hat, but I’ve been watching things and there seems to be a pattern...
     
  16. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    I need to borrow your tinfoil hat as I can't accept this viewpoint. Or only in the limited sense that agencies will always ring the supply they think will be cheapest.

    But they still need to find bodies to fulfil the grandiose promises they have made to schools. Schools are still desperate so they will have to come to you when the cheapies aren't available. Also cheapies don't hang around and aren't usually good enough (or they come across me and realise they can push much higher).

    I do accept that the cheaper the supply is the more work they'll get but I can think of a few schools where even £200 a day is barely enough so why accept less for the pleasure of going there every day?
     
  17. nanniedeb

    nanniedeb New commenter

    I am currently working as a supply teacher in the Midlands (Primary). For one of the agencies I am with I was promised a rate of 140 per day . However, this isn't always what I am paid as they say 'different schools agree to different amounts' and will often receive up to £10 per day less. I am finding work is more and more scarce so the thought of haggling for a better daily rate will only cause the agency to either offer me less work than the 1 day per week I'm currently getting (as you can imagine I am facing financial problems through lack of daily or long term work, despite being with 4 agencies) .

    In a previous year where I did meet the AWR threshold I had to battle with the agency to be paid to scale. They said the school only agreed to pay at NQT rate (I have been teaching 20 years and am on UPS1). I found out the agency hadn't even approached the school about any of this so with a gentle mention of the word 'union' it all got miraculously sorted out over night.

    I would love to obtain lots of work for some of the rates being mentioned here, but for me the reality is that there seems to be little supply work in my area so, if i'm offered work, then I have to accept what is paid or do without work. I am constantly applying for permanent positions but I know that schools want NQT's and RQTs due to finances. My 20 years and my UPS1 are being dismissed at the application stage. It hurts and its damn worrying.
     
    agathamorse and JohnJCazorla like this.
  18. ringlets

    ringlets New commenter

    I know how you feel. Also Midlands Primary here!
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  19. MissGeorgi

    MissGeorgi Occasional commenter

    Hi, interesting point but I’m always fully booked. However, we’re moving to a new area, and things may not be as good there...
     
  20. BetterNow

    BetterNow Occasional commenter

    Maybe it’s me :p

    I’m primary are based and there are lots of us around. I find I go to the same place for weeks, then it changes and I go to the new places for weeks, then it changes. I similar faces around, but there are always new faces as well. Maybe it’s different in subject specific high schools?
     

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