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Cyclic patterns

Discussion in 'Music' started by donna1107, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Im a year 5/6 teacher, an NQT, and need some help with my music planing. Our topic is India, and we're looking at cyclic patterns, only I have no idea what that means or where to start. Anyone have any fool proof ideas/activities/songs?
  2. its the first year we're in mixed year groups so there's no previous planning, its the first year we're using topics, so there's no planing. There's no music co-ordinator as she's on maternity leave.
    Im so surprised by the lack of support on here recently.
  3. brookey1970

    brookey1970 New commenter

    Yes, you do seem to have that effect on people. Very curious.

    Best of luck!
  4. 2
    Posted by: jemmavause 08/04/2011 at 20:41
    Joined on 17/11/2010
    Posts 114
    Hey Donna I'm not a teacher but work for a company called south Asian arts. My suggestion is that you explore the rhymic patterns in Indian music. I can send you some resources next week if you e mail me on education@saa-uk.org.uk

    Posted by: marlin 08/04/2011 at 20:43
    Joined on 18/01/2009
    Posts 773
    Some ideas of resources:





    and I believe there's a song called Dham Dham in Banana Splits:


    You could also try to get someone in to play the Sitar or Tabla - I have in the past and there is really nothing to beat seeing and hearing the instruments live.

    Will come back if I get any planning ideas.

    Posted by: marlin 09/04/2011 at 00:20
    Joined on 18/01/2009
    Posts 773
    Have you already covered the objectives in Unit 16 Cyclic Patterns? If not, then this is perfect for your India work.

    I think you can use all the objectives in this unit to plan your work. This is the link to the archived schemes in case you don't have it already:


    Cyclic patterns (particularly Indian music) come again in Year 7 and Year 9 and so a lot of the resources out there are for KS3. Any work you do though won't 'spoil' later work as you are unlikely to cover the structure of the music in the way that KS3 do. You could look at some of these resources though for your own reading.

    Some suggestions:

    1. Children should learn about cyclic patterns: listening to Indian music - lots of CDs available and the class clip links below.

    2. That percussion instruments can produce a wide range of sounds: Ame sau vala tara bal extended activities Sing Up

    3. How different patterns can fit together: Under the Lemon Tree - extended activities Sing Up

    4. About particular cyclic patterns: Allah Hoo - extended activities Sing Up

    5. How to invent simple rhythmic patterns: children create their own rhythms (perhaps the ideas that jemmavause sends to you will be perfect for this objective)

    6. How to expand rhythmic ideas using timbre and duration and by rearranging the rhythmic material: extend the work of objective 5

    Some of these BBC Class Clips could be used too:







    http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/playing-the-tabla/9595.html A young boy playing the Tabla - great demonstration!


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/learningzone/clips/ragas-in-indian-music/5212.html This is great for an example of Sitar playing!

    If you follow some of the links from these clips there's more to look at!

    One area that you might not have considered is that The Beatles were heavily influenced at one point (1965 - 68 approx) by the music of India and so you could include some of their music too!

    BTW - This BBC clip has 4 animated poems, the second of which is about Holi - the Indian festival of Colour. It mentions Sitars and Tablas.


    That'll do for now!

    I would stress again that it would be really good if you can get someone to come in and actually play live. They might also talk to the children about the instruments and how they are played.

    Hope all of this helps.
  5. These were the responses I found for you from your Primary thread. I have nothing more to add to these on the knowledge front or I would have. I would certainly suggest that if you want help you could go to the effort of simply thanking these people rather than being aggressive and effectively throwing it back in their faces. Is none of this any help to you? Or the other responses given on this thread? They certainly seem to have made an effort on your behalf!
  6. And if you go into the resources section of this site you will find various things that may be of use to you if you do a search for 'Indian Music' or 'Cyclic Patterns'. Failing that, if all of this is no help or simply not good enough or supportive for you I would suggest you do your own research.
  7. i think ul find that i looked at the great response marlin gave me, which has been really useful. However, if you look closely at my original question here, it was asking for someone to explain what cyclic patterns actually are, not what to do!!! I do my own research, but as an NQT would just like advice from other experienced, and what i thought would be supportive, people on here!!! If you dont have anything nice to say, or advice to give, dont comment.
  8. You also asked for any useful songs/foolproof ideas etc which is perhaps why they chose to offer you the information in their responses. It would not be possible for me or any other poster trying to help/offer advice (which is what I was doing by redirecting you to the other post in case you hadn't seen it) to know if you have looked at the responses as at no point was there any recognition of this from yourself, or any gratitude shown. In fact, the only response you gave was to say that people were being unhelpful and unsupportive - please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on this. You wonder why people may slightly get the hump?
  9. bod99

    bod99 New commenter

    JennyMus is right. Your original post totally gives the impression that you needed planning ideas/resources which is what people have given you. I still don't understand where you got the phrase "cyclic" from if you know nothing about the music and there is no planning. It must have come from somewhere?!

  10. I agree, Indian music is not the best to work with on cyclic patterns, although the rhythmic tala side can be cyclic (but often with lots of variations thrown in). The melodic raga side is less repetitive, I'd say.
  11. marlin

    marlin Star commenter Forum guide

    Just to be clear where the mention of cyclic patterns came from.
    The very original post in Primary asked:
    We're doing India for our topic after Easter, and ive got the job of planning music. Obviously we'll look at indian music, but what bits of it, and do what with it? I suppose what im asking is what will the objectives and activities be? Its a yr5/6 class. if anyone has any planning that would be fab
    Looking at the QCA units to try and find the best fit for this topic of India, Unit 16 (Cyclic patterns) was the only one that for y5/6 that was at all appropriate.
    Overview for unit:
    This unit develops pupils' ability to identify and create music based on cyclic patterns.
    During this unit pupils are introduced to the concept that some music is conceived structurally in cyclical rather than linear terms. Pupils listen to music originating from Java, Africa and India. They perform and compose group pieces using cyclical models.
    Indeed, one of sections on this unit uses Kaherva as its focus and Indian music is mentioned several times in the examples. The OP had no idea what to do and it seemed best to point them in this direction, but with lots of references to the activities to go with the songs from India in Sing Up, which are very primary based.
    In my own experience, I have not introduced Indian music really until Year 7 Unit 4 QCA, instead using African music more in year 5/6 (Middle School teaching - hence overlap of KS2 and 3).
    This is one of the weaknesses of the 'creative curriculum' where subjects are no longer discrete and one has to plan things just to fit with the often random topics, rather than what is best for the subject. It is possible though to say that some subjects are outside of the theme and keep them separate, but this wasn't what the OP was asking for.
    The OP has since asked for a definition of Cyclic Patterns:
    Quote: ... asking for someone to explain what cyclic patterns actually are
    Rhythms used repeatedly in cycles.These rhythms can be made more interesting by adding different dynamics, durations and timbres.
    I leave it to others, if they wish, to discuss this further, but I have nothing more to add. I'm already wishing I'd never answered the first post!


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