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Currently THAT bad in the UK?

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by spanboy, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. spanboy

    spanboy Occasional commenter

    I see more and more people posting asking about going abroad to teach as soon as they've done their NQT year...or even going abroad TO do the NQT year.

    Are things really so bad in the UK now that new teachers want to leave before they've 'begun?' I've been left for 14 years now and it was pretty dire then in the schools I was teaching at. Can't imagine what it must be like now to want to get out so quickly?!!
  2. Teachallover

    Teachallover Occasional commenter

  3. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    spanboy likes this.
  4. sidekick125

    sidekick125 New commenter

    I left after my first two years and it was the best thing I have ever done. I was made Head of Year 6 in my first year, and then SLT for upper KS2 as the other lady went on long term WRS. They would only pay me M2 with no TLR, I worked 60-80 hours a week and after taxes, paying rent, bills and everything else, I had around £200 a month to live on. I made more money when I was a student working in Topshop.

    I worked myself so hard, and for what, £50 a week? I have encouraged all teachers that I know to leave the U.K and work abroad. I am in a Tier A school, so work a pretty equal amount of hours. However, I am incredibly well compensated for my time and can afford to go on holiday every break and buy anything I want.

    The state system is a mess and the government are going to have an even bigger recruitment problem when teachers realize that International schools will pay us what we deserve.
  5. yasf

    yasf Established commenter

    I left the UK for adventure, not because I didn't like teaching in the UK. I really loved the school I was at which regularly used to get 'Outstanding' in inspections, had great student - teacher relationships, and was an all round super place to work.

    I met up with some ex-colleagues a couple of summers ago. The school has been taken over by a large MAT, our excellent SLT had almost all been sacked, and the excellent student-teacher relationships have been replaced by shouting at the children in a military boot-camp style atmosphere. My ex-colleagues were all asking me about how to get a job overseas, and a few of them have since accepted jobs in international schools.

    It breaks my heart.
    blueskydreaming likes this.
  6. frogusmaximus

    frogusmaximus Occasional commenter

    To be honest, the UK education system can 'do one'.

    Low pay, long hours, poor management, constant changes, fences to leap, endless short term contracts, . . . found myself as a teacher going overseas and became a great one. Not sure it was possible in the UK as you need a moment now and then to reflect and need a bit of space to innovate.
  7. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    Yes, my dear amphibian, but the low pay, long hours and poor management are really just the symptoms, not the disease itself. For example, the dreadful mess in Birmingham shows that LGBT activists can push their pro-gay propaganda into primary schools, with the result that many Muslim parents are appalled. Then there are the ordinary teachers who are just trying to do their jobs, but they get caught in the crossfire. Meanwhile, many politicians send their children to private schools, while continuing to kick the hell out of the deflated political football that is state education in the UK.

    If you are a landlord, solicitor, an estate agent or a banker, then I am sure that you have done very well out of the spiraling house prices in the UK. But what about teachers?

    Well, frogusmaximus, this thread has become a tad depressing, so I shall leave you with a picture to cheer you up.

    Attached Files:

    obsiyea1 likes this.
  8. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    I think there is certainly a group of people who think "OK, got my QTS, now I can do that gap year but with a lot more money for a while!"

    I've made the argument before that leaving immediately after getting QTS really isn't always a good idea. Living abroad is very different to being somewhere for a short period of time, even if that's 4 or 5 months, and if you intend to go back to the UK at some point then it can be beneficial to have at least a couple of years UK teaching experience to rely on.
    spanboy and towncryer like this.
  9. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

  10. worlo24

    worlo24 Occasional commenter

    Totally depends on which school or local authority I think. I am now back teaching in the UK and my new school is great. The headteacher is all about well-being and mindfulness, we have a lot less paperwork to fill in, we have a much reduced marking policy - which focuses on instant, verbal feedback and our school offer a well-being package too. It also depends on your own mindset. Having taught internationally, I am much more focussed on work-life balance and this has held me in good stead coming back to the UK - I prioritize jobs more, tasks that can wait, I leave. The new Ofsted framework contains lots of points about teacher workload so maybe the tide is turning a little bit. Schools can be pulled up if they are increasing workload and not thinking about teacher well-being, so maybe they are now realising that we have a huge shortage of teachers for posts in this country.
    hallsa1 and (deleted member) like this.
  11. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    You can change as many education ministers as you like, replace OFSTED, increase pay, blah blah blah but I believe the one, fundamental problem with UK state education is pupil behaviour and the country's reluctance to accept that the youth of the UK are massively different to the youth of other countries in their behaviour and attitudes to adults.

    The only people I know who don't hate working in the UK work in some leafy suburb that luckily has less awful behaviour than most other schools.

    Every time I go back to the UK I am astounded at the behaviour of young people. I see gangs of teenagers shouting at elderly people in the streets, terrorising shopping malls, and other things on a daily basis that you would have to live many years in another country to see even once.

    It's the unfortunate truth no one wants to talk about. Everyone would rather blame the teacher instead of asking why other countries don't have class after class of unmanageable youths with no regard for authority
  12. teachtronic

    teachtronic New commenter

    i have to say i agree with this, my current school and headteacher resonates with what you have mentioned, i am only going abroad for the earning capacity and lifestyle, sunshine and opportunity to travel. I must be in the minority that doesn't verbally bash the UK (well my UK school) and still be leaving.
    hallsa1 and worlo24 like this.
  13. SineField

    SineField Occasional commenter

    The No 1 problem/mistake people make when doing this UK vs abroad thing, is that they fail to appreciate that we have a state and independent sector in the UK!

    When you go abroad you will 99% of the time be teaching in a private school, so when making a comparison it critical to focus on where you are currently teaching.

    If you are teaching in a UK state school with lots of typical state school issues in an area that is less than desirable, then going abroad will probably be a rewarding experience. Now whether that 'reward' is professionally, financially or life/balancey is open to discussion since there is an enormous variety of situations you could find yourself in.

    However, if you are already in a reasonable private school or betters then the comparative will likely be much different. The potential for improving on your 'situation' will be less and the risk of actually worsening it will be more.

    I've lived in 4 different countries outside the UK and have taught in both state and private and I say this with 100% confidence....... a very good international school will meet or possible slightly exceed the best UK schools, BUT, the worst or even just below average international schools will be trounced by their UK counterparts as at the very least you have the 'Burgundy Book' to fall back on!!
    hallsa1 and towncryer like this.
  14. 4019775

    4019775 New commenter

    T0nyGT demonising a whole section of UK society. Wonderful ignorance.

    UK has state schools (and children) who range from awful to fantastic, So does Canada, USA, Australia etc. etc.

    So many on 'the circuit' who couldn't cut it in the UK, and would not get through the door of an old school UK private school, describe the kids in the most awful and derogatory terms. The board clown Dumbells is another
    hallsa1 likes this.
  15. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Sounds like the person who did 6 months "teaching" in Australia, then get knocked back by a third rate school in Nigeria is back under a different name. Hasnt stopped then drawing on their "vast" international experience to draw conclusions though !!!!o_O

    Please keep it up. Your endless pathetuc and useless dross does keep me entertained :)
    motorhomer likes this.
  16. Tower01

    Tower01 New commenter

    I'm not sure mentioning the obvious homophobic protests in Birmingham is relevant here. Muslim parents must accept that schools follow British values and laws as I'm sure many of them do.
  17. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    As I last taught in Britain in 1991 my views on the state of UK education are worthless My niece (teaching in an outer London comprehensive) finds the bureaucracy far more stressful than the pupils, though it may be significant that her own three children are in independent schools.

    Many on these boards appear to think that 'abroad' is always better than 'at home' but in the words of Mr. Sportin' Life it ain't necessarily so. I served time as high school principal in a prestigious and old-established school in Chile where crack ruled and cannabis was commonplace. (We expelled twenty at one go for drug-fuelled assault and arson). That was more than twenty years ago and the fact that I have since been invited to return and reprise my Wyatt Earp role suggests that things may not yet be all peace and love. Choose warily, dear colleagues.

    Mind you, the thought of Boris as the next PM does add impetus to the idea of anywhere but England.

    Encouraging to see the faux newbie (horrid expression) and our old mate Marcus Porcius Dumbellicus (Delenda est Hispania) having a go at each other. Keep it up, lads. To those of us reared on the acerbic wit of Clovis and Phoney Pharaoh these boards have become distressingly somnolent.
    tigi and yasf like this.
  18. miketribe

    miketribe Established commenter

    And I really miss SMTDude...
  19. spanboy

    spanboy Occasional commenter

    ...and those leaving immediately post-QTS, I doubt that they will have sufficient classroom management skills (and just general experience) as they venture into 'going it alone' sin mentor/unions to fall back on, all in a foreign land.
  20. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    Me too.

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