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Court of Appeal rules Begum can return to UK to fight citizen for citizenship

Discussion in 'Personal' started by nomad, Jul 16, 2020.

  1. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    The Court of Appeal said she had been denied a fair hearing because she could not make her case from the camp.

    The judgement means the government must now find a way to allow the 20-year-old to appear in court in London despite repeatedly saying it would not assist removing her from Syria.

    Daniel Furner, Ms Begum's solicitor, said: "Ms Begum has never had a fair opportunity to give her side of the story. She is not afraid of facing British justice, she welcomes it. But the stripping of her citizenship without a chance to clear her name is not justice, it is the opposite."

    Ms Begum had argued that the government's decision to revoke her citizenship was unlawful because it left her stateless.

  2. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    Seems fair enough. It's not enough to reach the right conclusion, the right process needs to be followed as well to ensure everything is above board.
  3. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

  4. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    The government will do everything it can to prevent her physically returning to the UK to appear at the Tribunal in person. Because once she is back here it will probably be impossible in practice to deport her even if the courts found she did not have British citizenship and wasn't entitled to remain in the UK.

    The UK government can only deport someone to another country with that other country's agreement. We can't force Bangladesh, in this case, to allow Ms Begum in to Bangladesh. And in the past Bangladesh has said it won't allow her in. And I don't suppose Syria would allow her to be deported back to the refugee camp she is currently in either.

    So she'd have to stay in the UK. It's the same problem the Americans had which resulted in alleged terrorists being kept indefinitely in Guantanamo Bay. Other countries that they were supposedly citizens of wouldn't accept them back.
    needabreak, dumpty, nomad and 2 others like this.
  5. WB

    WB Lead commenter

    I don't want her back - ever!

    But I always thought this would happen as she can't be made stateless - I think her link with Bangladesh is a little weak(?) . Sadly we'll have to take her back and deal with it.

    I think the government always knew this and knew she would end up back here but wanted to be seen to be tough to deter others and please the population. We have to be seen to be better than them.
    agathamorse and lexus300 like this.
  6. gainly

    gainly Star commenter

    Exactly, once she comes back it will be impossible to remove her whatever the result of the court case. Same as all the illegal immigrants, once here they're here for life.
  7. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    What? This government has managed to deport plenty of people who were here perfectly legally, and plenty of people who they refused to accept were gay and needed asylum. What on earth makes you think they can't deport people here illegally?
  8. WB

    WB Lead commenter

    Where will they send her?
    nomad, Oscillatingass and Rott Weiler like this.
  9. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    Of course the government can deport illegal immigrants but only after months if not years of legal argument and even then there are protesters picketing airports trying to stop the flights.
    agathamorse and lexus300 like this.
  10. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    A blanket response of "scum" is hard for me to join in with when she was 15 at the point of departure, and when I spend so much of my professional time getting into the shoes of similarly aged people.
    Some are bright, some not so. Some are lucky, some very unlucky. Some are abused, some brainwashed, some reckless, some criminal, plenty of them are downright horrible.
    None of them are irredeemable, because they are fifteen.

    I know we are now several years down the line and this person is 20. And I also know what reportedly she is said to have spent her time doing since leaving the UK.
    But I cannot reconcile what I've just said with the concept of "scum illegal immigrants" or "National Islamic Threat",

    The story as presented in some accounts is one of disgust, personalised accusation and hastily placed accountability on somebody who has clearly been in a vulnerable place possibly from birth. Surely the bigger question ought to be how could this have happened in the first place?

    The UK Prevent policy was introduced in the UK in 2003. What exactly was it supposed to be achieving apart from a generalised mistrust of the immigrant community and a rebirth of British Values? Ms Begum was embarking on the beginning of her school days as the Prevent Strategy became a noticeable thing in education. But she got through the net. Primary and Secondary schools. Meaning it wasn't a useful strategy, it was a tick box do goody veneer. It didn't empower anybody to spot what sort of life she had, but it empowered lots of people to say they were looking after the nation.

    (which is now too good to be in Europe even, but that's not my main point)

    She needs a fair trial. Or rather her representatives do. She was only 15 and there was no way back for her. To displace, cast verdict and then resort to first line of maternal heritage (A card which is almost never played in UK immigration cases) as an answer to citizenship is a shameful example to how subsequent such cases should proceed. "Go back to where you belong", reemerging from the seventies. I think the legal system can do better than that.

    Cue irrational shouty responses saying I support extremism. I don't, and there is nothing in my post which says I do.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  11. Wilbur_Post

    Wilbur_Post New commenter

    Or what about doing it on the Falkland Islands and she can live there if she wins.
    agathamorse and lexus300 like this.
  12. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    Where did "scum illegal immigrants" and "National Islamic threat" come from? It is not in any of the comments on this thread. The only person using such language is you.
    alex_teccy, needabreak and lexus300 like this.
  13. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    Begum left as a 15 year old; a minor. She was born, raised and educated in the UK.

    If she has committed war crimes (or similar) she should be charged with them in the UK and put on trial here. She is our problem, no-one else's.
  14. gainly

    gainly Star commenter

    OK apologies, I should have said most not all.
  15. annie2010

    annie2010 Occasional commenter

    This young lady was legally a child when she left the U.K. Who knows what sort of indoctrination she as subjected to?
    A fair trial, definitely and, perhaps some care and protection
    However much one abhors ISIS and what they stand for, this is a traumatized, confused human being.
    lapinrose, jubilee, colacao17 and 4 others like this.
  16. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    Who? Begum wasn't here illegally.
  17. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    (1) God forbid we have due process (2) that's because the government keep deporting people who should have been granted asylum and/or have never lived in the country they're being deported to.
    ajrowing and nervousned like this.
  18. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Bring me your waifs and strays, your terrorist sympathizers and general dependents on state aid. All are welcome and to hell with the expense. The money tree will take care of all your worries.
  19. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    Although other views are available.
    lexus300 likes this.
  20. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    She's not being brought here - she was born and raised here. And travelled to Syria on a UK passport.
    colacao17, ajrowing and nervousned like this.

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