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correcting staff grammar.

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by sammy36, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. Ha ha you wrote "We as practitioners know that quality oral language preceeds written language..." Surely you mean "precedes"?
    Moreover in such a case, where it is only the spelling that is involved, there is no "correct" or "incorrect" oral version. In speech, indeed, your misspelling would not exist - only in written language. Less important than grammar, of course, and by the way I didn't laugh to ridicule you, but because it's funny, especially after "We as practitioners know..."!
     
  2. That message I just posted was to Hedda Gabler, of course, by the way
     


  3. <font size="2">Sorry if it has already been pointed out, but I simply could not read all of the replies, it is late in the afternoon and I want to go home. </font><font size="2"> </font><font size="2">'Wheres that to' is a Janner term. Janner being a term of a Plymothian (Plymouth).</font><font size="2"> </font><font size="2">When I moved into the South West, no Bristol is not in my book South West, anything past Bristol is South West. Sorry every time I look on the job sites for a position in the South West it throws up a million jobs in Bristol which is over a hundred miles away. </font><font size="2"> As I was saying before I went off on one, the Janner term 'Wheres that to' is simply a local dialect asking, where is that? The 'to' is asking for specific terms of where 'that' is, crossed with how do I get there.</font><font size="2"> </font><font size="2">"I was shopping in Traggo Mills"</font><font size="2">"Wheres that to' </font><font size="2">"It's about thirty miles down the A38"</font><font size="2"> Not</font><font size="2">"It's in Cornwall".</font><font size="2"> </font><font size="2">The issue with correcting grammar is that you find your own replies tend to be full of them.</font><font size="2">I hold a staunch view that grammar is an evolving subset of English, depending on dialect, age group and general education. I have sent out emails where the grammar has highlighted, however the emails in reply never seem to have a definitive view on what is correct or not.</font><font size="2"> </font><font size="2">As my English lecturer used to say at Uni, "as long as the information has been communicated and the message understood you have achieved your goal". He would then follow it with 'besides there are few people who have an idea where a comma or semi-colon goes so why bother'.</font>



     
  4. I'm afraid that I'm one of the "cringe inside" people when a member of staff makes a mistake. I agree that I'm not perfect, but it's the basics of the English language that we need to teach. On displays within the school entrance, I've been known to put missing apostrophes in, cross them out where appropriate etc. One member of staff had written "loosing" on our staff whiteboard instead of "losing" (which would have been correct in the context) and I have to admit to rubbing out the extra o, only for it to reappear later in the day.
    For the children, my pet hate is "Can I have a toilet?", I'm afraid you can't! Along with "he learned me how to read" ARGH! I find myself correcting the children, when it's appropriate.

     
  5. I'm rather surprised at how many people are highlighting TAs errors only, because many teachers are just as guilty as using bad grammar and spelling. I am in a support position in a college and often come across poor grammar and spelling made by teachers and curriculum managers.
     
  6. I wouldn't worry about it, during my PGCE year I was forever correcting the Spanish grammar of the MFL department. If she's in the wrong, then sorry, she's in the wrong and you have every right to let her know; more so when it could potentially rub off on the children she works with.
    A big well done for doing it face to face. I know a lot of people who would have invented some crazy staff notice about it.

    Thumbs up :)
     
  7. Ok people get out your net correction pens cause Im not going to worry about being proper, I am not at work!

    Sammy, I know what you mean.

    My principal has a thing about correcting everyones work .. her way! There might be nothing wrong with it but she will find something she wants changed. Her way or the highway. We do not see eye to eye. The first year with her, I just swallowed my words for the sake of peace. 2nd year and I cant do that anymore. I do everything asked, turn everything in on time, and go out of my way to help my students. When I put my head on the pillow at night, I can sleep peacefully knowing I did what I could.

    The principal turns out her newsletter before the rest of us. Makes us look like we are slow at getting ours out but oh well! I found errors on her letters last year and kept my mouth shut but this year I couldnt. I went to her, knowing we clash, I brought it up in a manner that suggested her secretary typed it up and the mistake must be on her part. To my surprise she told me that she types up her own newsletters and notes that go home. I showed her the mistakes and mentioned there were mistakes on previous letters. I told her that the principal before her made a lot of mistakes in his letters and that parents and students commented on it. She thanked me and then wondered why no one else came forward before. All I could say is that maybe they didnt read them since it is for the parents and not us. My daughter attends the school so I read them. After that she has been much nicer to me.

    What might be just a dialect, could be misunderstood as bad grammar. As a teacher one might see it as a dialect but what about students and parents? You know some are wondering what the heck are they saying? Thinking that person has bad grammar/cant speak English properly. Even if they dont say it. I work in a school with a very mixed cultural background and students always get confused and I am explaining it to them all the time so they dont think the teacher/smt has bad English. Maybe Im just old fashioned.
     
  8. [​IMG]Ah, "where's that to?" really brings back memories of primary school. I have now moved to London and had to learn the meanings of "innit" (among other things!).
    One of my teachers at primary school had us ask "please may I go to the lavatory" rather than "the toilet" (to which she would reply "not here, no!")
     
  9. My pet hates are...
    I were instead of I was, we was instead of we were, them instead of those, think instead of thing, somefink instead of something etc.
    My son never used any of my hates until he started nursery. When i heard staff use these and he started coming home from nursery saying any of these, I asked the staff to correct him, giving them examples. Hopefully the hint rubbed off on them as well. Anyway he doesn't use any of my hates and is now old enough to correct his girlfriend!
     
  10. I disagree with your lecturer: it's a sign of respect for the listener/reader to use language which will be easily and accurately understood. And using commas or semi-colons appropriately will help effective communication. If I don't care about my audience I usually just keep stumm!
    As such, dialect has a very valid place, but in a classroom where not everyone originates from the locality it's more appropriate to use 'Standard English' (or Standard Scots when I'm teaching in Scotland). As it's often the teacher who isn't a native-speaker of the dialect, pupils can use their dialect to undermine the teacher's authority, at least in Secondary. It's a question of register.
    I'm not sure the OP's correction of the TA was done particularly tactfully, though...
    But what should I do about the big display in my son's school which reads 'Lets stamp out bullying!' ? It's not pupils' work, which I think is ok to put up on display 'warts and all' if it has other redeeming features...



    btw, Trago Mills is 30 miles down he A38, but it's in Newton Abbott. Which was in Devon when I lived there, but perhaps I'm an out-of touch-dinosaur. And maybe there's a Traggo [sic] Mills in Cornwall. (Sorry - couldn't resist...)
     
  11. It's bad enough when a TA uses incorrect language but in my last school it was the head! She ALWAYS says we was, you was etc. It drove me nuts, I would cringe everytime. Her newsletters were almost as bad but she did used to send them to us for "proofreading" first to spot any typos. However, she refused to accept I was right when I corrected the grammar on the first one even though I was and tried to explain why. She also said "could of and would of" another pet hate of mine. Many younger teachers don't even seem to know it's wrong. The head was only 29.
     
  12. 'Where's that to' is so typically south wales! Like you I quite like it. I also use the phrase 'hark at that' - inherited from my welsh father!
    But what to do about fellow teacher who uses the 'f' sound instead of 'th' and uses 'like' rather too much? Ideas would be gratefully received!
     
  13. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    I love hark at that. It has a poetry that listen to can't come close to. 'Ooh, hark at that' is one of the phrases of my childhood, fifty years ago. I still use it - not as an affectation but because it's part of my way of speaking.
    Like? I've actually moved seats in trains to escape from victims of Likitis. It's unbearable.
    As for F rather than th, you just have to make your children stick out their tongues.
     
  14. Sounds loik yer in Cornwall, mi 'ansome! Where's that to? is a very common saying here and I must confess that I have caught myself using it on occasion. I think children need to learn when to 'speak proper' and when not, and find that they tend to know anyway. Local dialect can be re-assuring and more friendly than 'Queen's English' with a cut-glass accent. I agree that it is part of identity, and with so many different nationalities around perhaps something that should be preserved?

     
  15. well Sammy, where's your spelling to ?
    RECEIVED
    Dont blame her for not listening to your rudeness
    kdf
     
  16. Thanks Willie
    Of course, by the way, message received and understood.
     
  17. I wouldn't listen to you either - sounds like your'e on some kind of elitist treck up your own backside. Modelled has two ll's.
     
  18. jocool35

    jocool35 New commenter

    Why can't you just post on these things? Why do you have to 'reply'? Almost as annoying as bad spelling and grammar...
    After many years of working in my school, I have at last become the person to whom things are given to proof read - by one person who sends a lot of things out to parents. Not by the other, who has recently started sending out an extra 'newsletter' with missing punctuation and all sorts. So, some of our outside communications are correct, or as correct as I can make them. However, I often find things on the photocopier from other teachers with spelling mistakes on them, and there are drawers labelled in colleagues' classrooms with 'stationary', etc. When I taught classes for PPA a while back I regularly had to rewrite the material intended to demonstrate to year 6 how to write types of text, as sometimes it just didn't make sense. My school is in special measures - how can we encourage our children to have higher aspirations if we can't be bothered ourselves? Some people are fine about it when you point things out, and enjoy learning how to do something properly. Others appear to resent interference and imply that it isn't important. My usual first thought is, would they have a problem with me having '5 x 4= 25' on my classroom wall? Or, 'Wood is a very good conductor of electricity.'? Sometimes I find the situation rather depressing!


     
  19. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    How about 'Apple only has one syllable because it only has one vowel'. When questioned, the primary teacher who said this, explained that the 'e' was silent, so didn't count. It's still the most astonishing thing I have heard from a teacher. Would it have been right, quietly or otherwise, to correct this gem? For whatever reason she didn't last long at the school anyway!
     
  20. I think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I counted at least 8 mistakes in spelling and grammar in your post!
     

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