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"Cool" teachers letting us down?

Discussion in 'Behaviour' started by ILoveTeaching, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. gingerella

    gingerella New commenter

    Recently read Rate Your Teachers for the first time,was amazed to find I was rated as 'cool' mainly because 'no-one is allowed to get away with anything so you always learn loads'.Don't underestimate the kids they don't want you to be your friend, they want you to be their teacher.
  2. Bluebell Pixie - don't agree with the interpretation of confiscation as theft, even if this is the advice given by local police. For an offence of theft to be proven it is necessary to show that the accused intended to permanently deprive the rightful owner of possession - which is clearly not the case for confiscated items.

    >>> Theft, contrary to section 1 of the 1968 Act

    The offence consists of dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. <<<

    quoted from http://cps.gov.uk/legal/section8/chapter_a.html
  3. Totally agree with OP.

    I believe that many teachers don't challenge because they think (erroneously) that this will make their lives easier. In fact it is the other way round. Their lives become more difficult as time goes on.

    It is just like being a parent. Set the rules and stick by them. Yes, kids will kick off, but they respect you for sticking to the rules. They seriously don't respect the teachers who try to be their friends. How can a teacher be a friend? That is not their role. My little one had that one sussed at age five.
  4. briceanus

    briceanus New commenter

    Blimey, wish our school had rules like yours.
    Ours are allowed phones, i-pods, eating in rooms/corridors, etc...even get away with calling teachers perverts.
    If a phone goes off in class, the students can easily refuse to hand it over, then teacher needs to write it all up (extra admin) and then SMT tell them that using phones during class is naughty..... so they then do it again next time. If we are lucky enough to get hold of phones we are accused of theft, have to fill in the usual paperwork, and SMT return said phones by break. Only consequence is that teacher is told their lessons cannot be interesting enough, otherwise phones wouldn't need to be used !!! SPARE ME.
  5. fieldextension

    fieldextension New commenter

    Yes, the opening poster has a good point. My experience of challenging schools earlier in my career is that the problem in these cases often comes from the top. Weak and unsupportive senior management allows and encourages poor behaviour management by teaching staff. Teachers realise they will get no support from above, so start to let bad behaviour go. It is downhill all the way from there!

    A decent SMT ought to make it clear that teachers who uphold the rules will get 100% support. They also ought to notice if the rules are not being applied consistently and should make it clear that inconsistent standards among teaching staff are totally unacceptable. Just as kids need a reminder about standards and expectations so, regretfully, do some teaching staff. When the SMT causes or allows many of the teachers to let bad behaviour go, the problem spreads to other teachers, and eventually cascades down to the kids. The school ethos ultimately comes from the top.
  6. I too was once one of the teachers who thought the problems stemmed from SMT who didn't support us in managing challenging behaviour.I am now one of the SMT in the same school and see things from a totally different perspective. Some of our most disruptive pupils have IBPs that are very clear. Some staff do not follow the consequences on the IBPs and then complain when children have kicked them, swore at them etc. These children are manipulating the system all the time, usually successfully. I'm fed up of reminding staff to follow the IBP to the letter. It would mean the child gets the message clearly, the parents get the message clearly and the teachers can continue teaching without the child in the class causing mayhem! It's not the teacher's fault that the child isn't behaving in the first instance, but it is their fault if they aren't prepared to instigate IBPs consistently!

    Rant over.
  7. I agree with Whacko,in our school its our Head thats the problem,all of the Teachers and Deputy Head follow the rules but the Head caves in and gives the kids stuff back at the end of the day.We have one year 6 girl who has her phone confiscated on a daily basis with no consequences.The Class Teacher took it and locked it in his drawer over night planing on giving it back to her at the end of the week,the parents went to the Head next morning,she got it back and so the circle begins again.

    Whats the point of classroom staff doing thier job if we dont get backup from the Head?
  8. Discipline comes from the top and I feel our head is far too soft. I do music and have to teach the whole school, each class has their own rules which makes it pretty hard for me to know what each class follows. Assembley and hymn practise is horrendou because she lets them talk. They then all go back to class as high as kites. Doesn't det the right tone at all.
    My colleagues think i'm too hard on the kids and hate it if I write anything in the class book that is negative. It makes me miserable.
  9. I think this ought to be posted on opinion too.
    It's a very good thread an I think many of us feel the same.
  10. You sound like a dam good teacher, some teachers are too weak and just want to be liked, unfortunately they aren't respected, and often aren't liked either.
  11. Interesting point, bezm, from someone with experience of two different angles.

    I was a teacher, then a HoD, and then left teaching. I now have the perspective of someone looking from the real world into the artificial world of education, and would ask the following in response to your comments:

    "Why on Earth are there Individual Behaviour Plans?" Think about it from an outsider's viewpoint - instead of one set of rules, to be folowed by everyone, there's a specific set for different pupils, each set of rules designed for that person, and it's absolutely barmy.

    IBPs offer yet another way for badly behaved children to continue to play the system, and simply add to the problems faced by classroom teachers.

    So while I thank you bezm, for adding an SMT viewpoint, just think how much more manageable your school would be if your Head Teacher enforced one set of rules for all.
  12. Oh god, and in my old school it was smt as well. We worked in ebd so behaviour was important.
    So, in the morning I would take year 9- I would give them a detention for whatever and ask for their taxis to be cancelled.
    No matter how naughty they were- if I sent them out the head would send them back in if they were quiet for 5 mins, then they would send them back in. This would happen several times in one lesson.

    Then in the afternoon, if they were good for the last half an hour the head would let them go on time.

    A lesson learnt? no.
  13. briceanus

    briceanus New commenter

    Post 25.
    If teachers aren't applying IBPs effectively or consistently, I would suggest some of thge fault must lie with the IBP itself.

    We have a 3 warnings then consequences system. The children admit that this is simply a permit to misbehave badly 3 times before anything can happen. Then teachers are told by SMT that acting after 1 warning is inconsistent and unfair.......
  14. i have posted this on opinion as I think it is very interesting and more traffic need to come across it.
    I agree that one set of rules is enough, if they can't fit in then it is notthe right place for them.
    I do think we need to pull together as a profession.
  15. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey New commenter

    I think the problem is that often the consequences are not delt out. I also agree with the lack of support by SMT, if they don t do anything then the kids do as they please.
  16. Thanks Whacko! The IBPs we use, as a result of intervention from Behaviour Support, fit in perfectly with our whole school behaviour system, but highlight exactly what the consequences for unacceptable behaviour are, and, more importantly, the parents have to sign them so that they know what to expect when little Johnny yet again refuses to comply with adult requests. The target is always 'I will comply with all adult requests' and the consequences happen immediately if they fail to do this. The final consequence is that the parents will be sent for to take the chid home. If they are uncontactable, the child is then officially excluded the following day. Parents are expected to support school. If the parent doesn't agree to this in he first place, then the child gets an exclusion automatically at point 5. All this is recorded, so staff, parents and the child can see exactly how far they go each day. More importantly, it's almost impossible to get a Statement for behaviour if this type of system has not been put in place first, let alone a permanent exclusion. The problems happen when some staff feel unhappy about an exclusion, but still want something 'done' about naughty Johnny. Quite what that is, I don't know. Permanent exclusion is just passing the problem onto some other school, not solving the problem!
  17. I am an absolute stickler for following through on rules, punishments, detentions, etc. If you give the little sods an inch they take a hell of a lot more than a mile at Hissy High. It may mean a bit of extra time and chasing at the start of each year but it means short term pain for long term gain when they realise Miss Hissy ain't to be messed with!

    We have a ******* young (well, not much younger than me actually) teacher who wants to be cool and matey with the kids. You always hear "Mr %%% lets us/does that/doesn't mind, etc". Mr %%% also dishes out dinner passes so kids can get an early dinner - for no reason other than the kids ask for them. I've had kids ask me for them "Because Mr %%% gives them out".

    Sadly he's not the only one and inconsistent SMT don't help matters either...
  18. You are a 'good' teacher; keep doing your job. We have so few sanctions anyway. I always take phones, MP3 players etc. My school implemented a policy of removing phones, with parent having to pick them up. I do feel, however, that if your school had a tough/strong leadership team, all teachers would be following the rules. I had approached my Head last January(2006) about a 'zero' tolerance towards mobile phones/MP3's and was basically told it was impossible to implement and not to bother him again - he was the Head - who the hell was I? Not in words of course; tone of voice, body language etc. Anyway they (SLT) implemented 'my' plan the following September (last year) and almost overnight phones/MP3's vanished from classrooms. So I believe I am right; weak leadership is the problem.
  19. I once complained to the head about the scruffy appearance of some pupils at a music concert - ties not done up properly, shirts hanging out and so on, when he'd made smart appearance his big thing when he started. He actually said to me, 'I'm not going to stand there like a facist telling children how to dress when they've given up their time to come to the concert.' I could hardly believe my ears. He introduced clip on ties but didn't enforce the wearing of those properly so the children all just do what they like. He clearly wants to be their pal and not their head teacher. I despair.
  20. Totally agree, this inconsistency of approach has been a constant problem at our school - result, poor results and lots of low level disruption, what these teachers don't realise is they're not helping themselves by not enforcing the rules the kids will just respect you less/.

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