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Conversion/top up for Further Education PGCE (QTLS) to PGCE (QTS) recognised

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by TESFAN, Aug 9, 2008.

  1. A number of points ; DTTLS DIDN'T replace PGCE - the Post Graduate Certificate in Education (PCE DTTLS) is alive and kicking - it is a university award that is recognised internationally as a teaching qualification - try going to Australia or NZ with a PTTLS, CTTLS or DTTLS or a GTP and they will wonder what planet you came from, but they instantly recognise a PGCE
    A secomnadry school can employ someone on an unqualified scale , which can be up to £23K but the new acadamies can set their own pay scale and pay an Unqual+ rate.
    The Institute for Learning (IfL) is currently trying to gain parity of esteem between graduates teaching in both sectors and it appears that the current government has expressed some sympathy to the idea - but that will take time.
    But you must realise that teahcing in schoools is by statute an all graduate profession (yet again according to the current Government, entry requirements a 2:1 degree in future)
     
  2. This is not an issue of parity of esteem, nor is it an issue of an all graduate profession. It is fundamentally an issue of child protection.
    It is necessary to ensure that children are taught by people who are safe to do so. In principle that is what QTS aims to ensure, which is why trainee teachers are not allowed in the classroom by themselves (and yes I know that QTS is pants, and that in fact there are many exceptions to the latter point; e.g. cover supervisors, but nevertheless this is the principle).
    This leads to a structural inequality between schools and FE. Whereas it is possible for a teacher with QTS to move to FE and subsequently gain QTLS (because there is no perceived risk in gaining QTLS on the job) the reverse is not possible without creating a child protection issue.
     
  3. Thanks for getting in there first! :) I can also confirm that the PGCE (Post-compulsory) is still alive and kicking because I am currently mentoring a student who is doing one! The DTTLS and PTTLS courses actually replaced the old C&G 7407 or whatever the new code for this course was. Also, just one other tiny point. The DTTLS course is a level 5 course whereas a PGCE course is a level 7 course on the National Qualifications Framework, so why would one want to replace the PGCE with a lower level qualification?
     
  4. This leads to a structural inequality between schools and FE. Whereas it is possible for a teacher with QTS to move to FE and subsequently gain QTLS (because there is no perceived risk in gaining QTLS on the job) the reverse is not possible without creating a child protection issue.

    If the goverment is so concerned about this, why has it:
    a) Abolished the GTC but left IfL alone (the less professional and regulated body)?
    b) Raised the school leaving age to 18?
    c) Not ordered all colleges employing teachers with FE qualifications instead of Primary and secondary ones to gain these qualifications immediately or be sacked because of child protection issues?
    Personally, I don't think it's as simple as a child protection or all people (including non teachers) working with the under 19s would be asked to get Primary or Secondary teaching qualifications, in order to keep their jobs. I think it's still partly a throwback to the days when any idiot could teach in FE (well, we still have idiots-some of whom I have the misfortune to work with, only now they've got around the Law).

     
  5. They are actually proposing to replace the GTC with something with stronger teeth.
    Indeed, a completely inconsistent approach that has evolved as FE has been pulled into dealing with kids that schools can't.
    Yes. And more to the point it would be impossible to impose a model of 'qualify first - then teach' on FE because that would mean having to pay plumbers to train as teachers before they were allowed into the workshop - and that would prove to be very expensive.
    Oh yes.
     
  6. They are actually proposing to replace the GTC with something with stronger teeth.
    Yes, I know about this but didn't want to muddy the argument of my previous post, as it now raises the following argument:
    1. At what point does the jurisdiction of the GTC replacement end and the IfL begin once the new leaving age comes into effect in 2013?
    As technically, we're all be compulsory except for those teaching 'mature students' (over 18s) which has less funding. I almost but not quite feel sorry for the fat cat civil service bod dealing with the 'improved alternative' to the GTC who has to work this out!
     
  7. I say almost because I'm still annoyed with the idiot described above who designed or refused to the Law allowing me to teach in school 6th forms with my Post compulsory PGCE knowing damn well that the increased leaving age would come into effect and that more schools would set up 6th forms with more funding etc, thus screwing up FE even more!
     
  8. shirtandtie - you allude to the government's intention to replace the GTC with "something with stronger teeth". I'm not doubting you but I wonder if you could cite/clarify your source? Cheers.
     
  9. does this mean, I can not convert my PGCE in FE to a New Zealand qualification?
     

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