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Confused over part time teacher's pay entitlement

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by May2, Jan 2, 2011.

  1. May2

    May2 Established commenter

    I teach every morning from 9.00 to 12.00. I believe this used to be paid as 0.5 but did pay change so it should now be classed as 0.6 as mornings are longer than afternoons. I do of course get my statutory 1 1/2 hours a week PPA out of these hours.
  2. tafkam

    tafkam Occasional commenter

    The rules were clarified a couple of years ago, but it wasn't as simple as just saying that mornings count for more. Your pay has to be individually calculated based on the number of hours you are timetabled for (teaching + PPA) compared to those of a full-timer. If at your school there are exactly 5 teaching hours per day, and you're teaching 3/5 of them, then yes, you'd be entitled to 3/5 (or 60%, or 0.6) of the standard salary.
  3. May2

    May2 Established commenter

    Ok thanks, so that is was I really thought.
    I am teaching the Nursery Class in a maintained school and have taught there on a permanent contract in the Nursery for something like 10 years. I was also on a 0.5 contract teaching from 9.00 until 11.30 every morning before the nursery hours were extended to 3 hour sessions in September.I know there has been a lot of confusion over this as full time nursery teachers now have a longer day than the rest of the teachers in primary schools and can't be paid more than the full time salary.
    My situation is that I am still salaried as 0.5 working each morning with no breaks like most nurseries but my Head teacher is now paying me 'extra hours' for the half hour a day extra, just the hours I work and not in the holidays as she says that is all the money available.
    I feel next year it could be taken away as it is not on my contract. By the way I am Upper Pay Scale 2 which probably doesn't help. I also wonder about final salary pension if this goes on a few years presumably the extra is not classed as my salary.
    I queried it with my union but I felt my area Union rep did not really understand the nursery teacher's situation and suggested I had been overpaid for years being on 0.5 when working until 11.30 and that if I fought the issue I could lose these extra hours pay I am now getting.

    I wondered if anyone else knew the official line in these circumstances. I also tried to discuss it with my County pay dept but they were no help either.
  4. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    The full timer in the Nursery at your school should still not lose out as they will be limited to the 1265 Directed Time Hours and should have seen a reduction in the expectations made on them outside their classroom contact hours. They will have longer sessions but also more PPA time than when they operated shorter sessions and fewer meetings etc. They can ask to see their personal Directed Time tally and can refuse to undertake out- of -lesson work sessionsif it will take them over 1265 hours. Thus, if getting close to 1265 hours and the Head directed them to attend meetings they could ask if their presence was required at the meetings or at the up-coming Parents' evenings as not all the Directed sessions could fit into their 1265 hours.
    You. as a part timer, must still have your PPA and if on 0.6 would be subject to 6/10 X 1265 for Directed Time, with the Head able to use up any surplus from your Contact + PPA for Parents' Evenings, Open Days, Staff meetings etc.
    When you only had nursery sessions until 11.30, was 11.30 your finish time too or did you have to clear up for the afternoon session or stay on the premises later , making 0.5 correct for your working day?
    I don't see how you can only be 0.6 for term time. Every contract teacher should be getting the holiday pay commensurate with their term-time commitment. You are correct to be concerned about your pension rights too as you are paying 0.6 TPS contributions in term time and yet are not earning 0.6 over the entire year.
    You need to speak to HR at your LA to get your contract regularised for your your new work schedule, with arrears of pay where necessary.
    It is possible that you are being paid 0.5 on contract and the equivalent of 0.1 on supply rates. If that is so, you would normally be completing timesheets for the half hour of supply work each day and should be paid the supply hourly rate (annual salary for your pay point divided by 1265 for each hour worked). That rate would include pro-rata holiday pay and you would thus not be claiming for the Mon- Frid half hours that fall in holiday weeks.
    It would seem an admin intensive way of doing things, however, and would not be standard practice given that thelonger session times are permanent. You should have a new contract for the permanent sessions being worked

  5. May2

    May2 Established commenter

    Thanks for taking time to reply.
    When the children finished at 11.30 I obviously had to stay until 12.30/1.00 ish to tidy up etc. At my school we do not have laid down directed hours so if you want to work late some people may stay on till 6.00 and arrive at 8.45 .It is left to their discretion and flexibility can be good.
    I did speak to HR and asked if my school could pay me in this way and they said the Heads just inform them how much pay is required for each member of staff and they pay it and were not at all helpful.
    At the moment when the school secretary does the timesheet at the end of each month she just adds all my extra hours as a lump and I think I get it at the Upper Pay Scale rate that I am on.
    I can't really get to the bottom of it but it must just be a money saving exercise and as it is not in my contract I feel she can turn round and say there is no more money next year. She has paid the Nursery Nurse for the extra time on her contract as normal through holidays as well, which also really annoys me.
    As I said I wanted some official stance on this to take to the Head but my Union was next to useless.
  6. amjeg

    amjeg New commenter


    I really would appreciate some advice on this too! I am a Nursery Teacher now working the extra 30 mins a day still on 0.5 salary. My school's hours are 9-3.30 with 3hrs in the morning and 2 hr 30 mins in the afternoon. My head discussed the time changes with me and said she was sorry but as nursery teachers had been overpaid (her words) for years it works itself out and she really didn't have the money to pay more. I am always expected to come to P.D days and recently asked when we had 2 in a row if I could come to day 1 and not day 2 as pro-rata should not be expected at both and she informed me I was needed at both. But I could leave in the afternoon on day 2 (only then added - of course you need to do home visits for the new children first) which took up said afternoon. Another teacher in the school who does 2 and a half days a week did not come in on day 2 as apparently she didn't need to be at meetings and told me this is because she is part time!
    I do not get non-contact time as they cannot find cover so I get 0.05 to cover the time in my salary. (not my choice!)
    Need some help on this as I really dont feel I can talk to my head about the issue. No one seems sure of 1 answer for all. Spoke to a friend today who works in a school just two villages from mine as a Nursery Teacher same hours as me and she gets paid 0.6. She always leaves by 12.30 as she says she is not doing extra hours for no pay. I never leave before 1pm can often be there till 2-3pm every day. Would be completely happy to do this (as I always have even when it was 11.30 I finished) if I felt I was being treated fairly with regards to my pay.



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