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Confused: 2 College Degrees

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by gyselsolerswim, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. gyselsolerswim

    gyselsolerswim New commenter

    Hi. I have a Bachelor’s Degree in Psychology emphasis in Counseling. I have a Master’s in Teaching (MAT). I have 6 years of teaching experience and a license I achieved after my formal education training with my Master’s degree.

    A recruiting Agency told me that I couldn’t apply to teach in Dubai but highly recommended China because my bachelor’s is not in education. Needless to say, the recruiter is based in China. What do you think? Is that true that even though I have a Bachelor’s in Psychology and a Master’s in Education my options are limited? Thanks.
  2. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    UAE (including Dubai) is funny about what it considers degrees - yes, if you are primary / lower school teacher then you wouldn't be able to teach in primary because your degree is not the subject which you will be teaching. You would, however, probably be able to teach Psychology in Secondary / High School if that's what you're looking for.

    Here in China, though, they're not as ridiculously picky. It depends what you're wanting to teach, but primary would be a good option here. Your MEd would also put you in good standing (and would probably give you a small uplift on any salary.)
  3. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Only a 3 year degree obtained in a native English speaking country qualifies you to teach in China.
  4. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    It's true. Your undergraduate degree needs to be in your subject for the UAE
  5. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Labelling the UAE as "funny about what it considers a degree" is inaccurate. They and other countries who place this as a mandatory standard is a step in the right direction.

    You will get a job but not in countries that has this as a stipulation when applying for working visa.

    Cast your net wider?
  6. gyselsolerswim

    gyselsolerswim New commenter

    True! I’ve decided to be more open with the countries that may be an option to me. I have been considering Asia. I’m going to finish up some applications and see what happens.

  7. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    Taiyah - I agree with you to a point - but what would be wrong with, say, a physics teacher teaching maths? Also, UAE effectively blocks from primary almost anyone who doesn't have a BEd, so a teacher who has a degree in Law or Maths, a PGCE / PGDE and 10+ years classroom experience can't be hired while the teacher who is straight out of Uni can.
  8. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Nothing wrong with hiring an NQT with a BEd qualified to teach the subject, grade or phase. Experience doesn't give anyone the qualifications they lack. Countries like the UEA, are not alone in having a set standards all working visa holders/residents need. They are just catching up with what other western countries have always done.

    There is a reason why countries like the UAE have placed this pre-requisite. This is slowly coming in other parts of the ME. It wouldn't surprise me if China move in the same direction.
  9. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    Unfortunately there aren't enough teachers to go around with degrees in their subjects who would want to move to China. Computer science is a particular problem as there are very few CS graduates who will enter teaching and stay there considering the prospects they have elsewhere, let alone do this in a random Chinese megacity.

    I'm sure that most schools would want to hire people with red-brick/Ivy league degrees in their subjects but the particicality of this when you have so many schools and aren't a particularly desirable location is a different thing. The UAE can do it because for whatever reason it's a desirable location for young teachers. It will be interesting to see what happens after wages continue to fall though. Maybe they'll have to rethink their policies as people shift east for the money.
  10. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Lets be honest the majority of school owners would like to employ teachers on YTS and pay minimum wage.

    The financial package offered by schools today is on a downward slop across the world due to the large business interests owning schools in several countries.

    The flood of iPGCE candidates is driving down the salaries of "professional teachers" in China by as much as 30% compared to previous years.

    Why should a school with the same name pay different salaries in Shanghai and Dubai for the same job.

    Too many teachers with dubious qualifications will drive down pay and conditions for all if left unchecked.
    T0nyGT likes this.
  11. Unconventional33

    Unconventional33 New commenter

    To be honest, a degree in education does not prepare you for a classroom - at least in most colleges and universities in the United States. There is no teacher like the actual experience of trying and doing it on your own day after day in a classroom. Most of us teachers got our stride probably around the third year of teaching. There's so much you don't truly understand until you actually have real experience. While I understand the desire to hire teachers that are qualified...IMO I would rather hire a teacher with 10 years experience proven track record and results and great references from people that actually matter than someone who has a 4 year degree from a good school and no experience. However, most people doing the hiring at schools know little about education to begin with anyway.
    autumnmuse80 likes this.
  12. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    The problem with the PGCEi is that it's not really worth the paper it's written on - it's only recently that some of them have included teaching practice, for example. Most sensible recruiters know this - the ones who are recruiting those teachers predominantly are either (a) desperate or (b) skinflints.

    My point is that while I can see a strong argument for the degree-subject relationship in secondary, I really don't see it in primary. I think the UAE's position come about not because they wanted to improve teaching, but more through a lack of understanding of teaching qualifications and a subsequent reluctance to admit they got it wrong and thus lose face.

    "Why should a school with the same name pay different salaries in Shanghai and Dubai for the same job"

    Put simply - cost of living. You'll struggle to retain teachers if you can't afford to live somewhere. And regardless of the name, the schools do still compete with each other for teacher so salaries (and allowances) do differ.
    576 likes this.
  13. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    *deleted - repeat post*
  14. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    I actually find the cost of day to day living, putting food on the table, beer in the fridge, clothes on the family backs the same for Beijing, Shanghai, HK and UAE them same and only the cost of accommodation different. The cost of accommodation is basically free in most packages.

    The big school franchises have an agreement not to compete on salaries as it will drive up their costs over time. The schools in China basically offer the same packages now, so unless you are jumping from mickey mouse English schools into the rent-a-name one's you will not notice the difference. You could describe the gentleman's agreement amongst the international schools a cartel in their dealings with expat teachers.
  15. gyselsolerswim

    gyselsolerswim New commenter

    Thank You everyone for your response. I had my first preliminary interview with Edvectus and brought up the question to the recruiter. UAE will only accept candidates with Bachelor’s degrees. So, since my BA is in counseling, I could be a school counselor.
  16. gyselsolerswim

    gyselsolerswim New commenter

    For those who implied that the UAE has high expectations, I believe they have some tweaking to do. I don’t think I would be prepared to be a school counselor and deal with suicides and other real life situations in an educational setting. It’s a liability and unethical to practice and put kids in harms way when you don’t know what you are doing.
    autumnmuse80 likes this.
  17. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    In all honesty, despite your MA; it's not only the UAE who would deem you as an unqualified primary or secondary teacher. NZ and Australia won't recognized what you have.

    Perhaps one could argue there are too many universities/colleges who, in the last 10 years continue to cash in and have made it too easy to get into the MA program in ed/teaching. There was a time where a four year B Ed (credit and above average, 70%+) was a pre-requisite when applying to get into a Masters of Ed/teaching program.

    The bigger issue for you is that a recruitment company has formally told you your qualifications is simply not enough..... Time to give up the tax, bills and accommodation free salary dream and continue heading east.

    You will get your job.
    Ne11y likes this.
  18. AirHostie

    AirHostie New commenter

  19. adrixargentina

    adrixargentina Occasional commenter

    I have been ruling out applying for posts in Abu Dhabi because I only have a minor in the subject I want to teach there. I thought it had to be your full degree or your major at least. Can anyone answer this question, because I've seen a job in Abu Dhabi and I don't want to apply for it unless I'm certain. Thanks.
  20. adrixargentina

    adrixargentina Occasional commenter

    Is that just in primary? I'm secondary. Thanks.

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