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Coming out re the Foundation Stage Profile

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by debbiehep, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. Birmingham is piloting a nursey profile in it's nurseries, so it doesnt appear that anyone, anytime soon will be looking for the removal of the profile from schools.
  2. Have you seen the nursery profile?

    If so, what do you think of it?

    These profiles will never be changed/removed/simplified/agreed if people don't stand up and be counted and express their true opinions about them.

  3. "Birmingham is piloting a nursey profile in it's nurseries, so it doesnt appear that anyone, anytime soon will be looking for the removal of the profile from schools."

    But if the profiles were in schools and we failed to comply with the excessive filling in of them and stuck to our sensible practice - we would be voting with our feet!

    They would soon get the message if we did this en masse.
  4. Too many people dont question what they've been asked to do. Thats certainly true of the nursery I am currently in. I'm a supply NN based long term in a community day nursery. No-one with QTS there so I doubt how much credit will be given to the profile by teachers of follow on schools. I certainly see little observation and no evidence gathering so what the profile will be based on is anyones guess.
  5. Then the issue is whether the current practice is simply sensible practice - or whether this lack of observing is symptomatic of poor practice.

    Where it's the former, that's fine; if it's the latter then that raises concerns.

    You see, (just to confirm) I am not advocating no reflection on practice - I am advocating sensible and simple reflection on practice - and that to base practice and observations on the state-provided and local authority-provided profiles is unlikely to be either simple or sensible!

  6. NellyFUF

    NellyFUF Lead commenter

    There's a conference at Early Excellence near Huddersfield on the 19th June, national speakers including Margeret E.

    Good place to wave sad teddy bears?
  7. NellyFUF

    NellyFUF Lead commenter

    All the big guns seem to be signed up to

    The Alliance for Childhood.

    These are the people who signed a petition anti formal phonics in early years.

    What think you Debbie?
  8. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    A case of strange bedfellows, I suppose.
  9. Aren't these the early years people who may be responsible for all the prescription and observation and evidencing?

    Definitely not my bedfellows!
  10. rea1, one doesn't need to undertake formal observations and collect hard evidence in order to know where the children are at the moment and what they need to do next. In your setting the Profiles will be completed using professional judgement, just as they are in FS2 classrooms, even though there is no-one with QTS.
  11. talking about early years consultants we have one that keeps coming into our school and as soon as she says something the FS leader is so abiding we must do this we must do that, even though we share the same unit and do everything together she is so patronising to me, i do my best, i will take on constructive criticism but i will not be put down, she was enough to put me off, and worse of all she gets paid shed loads of money and i am not the only one to feel belittled.
    I had a moderation meeting the other night, oh my goodness two hours later we were still discussing whether a child had achived an ELG, there wasn't enough evidence only enough to prove that he was working towards achieving an ELG. I came away thinking, we are all different, children are all different we are teaching them as individuals although sometimes it seems as if they are on a factory manufacturing line. what ever next, and now that they are bringing out the early years foundation stage with new guidance etc etc what is wrong with birth to three matters and the FS curriculum, finally get comfortable and develop a good knowledge of these and they throw something else at us to get your head around. Good luck people, hold on tight, we will get through this
  12. NellyFUF

    NellyFUF Lead commenter

    I have heard margaret e and sue pearson speak at early excellence, read tina bruce... and others, surely they did not creat the mess of the stepping stones... it has to be a mess because it is a hash of different philosophies, like the literacy stratedgy based on the new zealand research but welded with the fantasy that we can use pictures as cues... just what new zealand man said was our problem.........

    And yes the research says that
    if the leader or teacher in an early years setting can explain clearly their philosophy then the children well learn, instead we get a hotch potch of stuff which may or may not suit us as practioners and we have to weld it together and suit everyone. It is no wonder young and new teachers get confused and feel deskilled.

    Paddy Beals at Forest Hall, she threw out the planning..... lets children lead and is the light for child based learning. With the child centred and respect for children and synthetic phonics we should be well equiped to raise standards and teach as if Every Child Matters......

    I like the EXE philosophy and it has been well researched and publicised...... but no, let's knit a new curriculum and mess it up yet again. Huge glossy files, training manuals, CDroms and waste of the world's resources yet again. When will they listen to the people they pay to do the job?
  13. softandfruityred, if it was based on professional judgements I'd be all for it. Unfortunatly the nursery management advocate a testing method,(observations are frowned upon during the time the children are there) with children being asked 'whats this shape?', 'whats that colour?' rather than through any observations that the children know the shape/colour etc in any firm way, and can confidently and regulary impart the information.
    It's not the only nursery I've seen work this way, which is why I question how valid the information they include on the profile will be.
  14. Surely we need to think about what statistics it is important to be kept at a national level and what information is important in your setting for your own teaching purposes?

    Not only do we have to protest at the unbelievably ridiculous collation of 'evidence' to 'justify' the 'judgements' for the foundation stage profiles, we need to look at the points we are expected to report on in the first place.

    Until these are, arguably, more simple and appropriate for national collection, we have two uphill battles.

    One is simply arguing about the maintenance of the current foundation stage profiles - this needs to be changed urgently. I suggest non-compliance as you know. This can be done immediately, and it doesn't prevent you from completing the statutory parts of the foundation stage profiles.

    Two is changing the profiles themselves (scrapping them and putting something simpler in their place).

    The exciting thing is that we CAN act immediately by non-compliance without having to engage ministers and change anything - which inevitably takes so much time. So, life can be improved immediately.

    You could even 'trial' this non-compliance and see how it affects your life and the life of the children.

    Please remember - I am not saying don't observe and assess - I am saying don't observe formally and obsessively and don't write posts its and stuff to 'justify' your professional judgements.

    If you do time and motion studies IMMEDIATELY to PUT ON THE RECORD just how much time you are spending on observations and filling in post-its, and writing up your files etc., this might also make a point. Some of you are able to quantify quite exactly what you do.

    It would also be helpful if you wrote professional reports - perhaps which I could collate for you all to pass to ministers, describing your practice, the pressures you feel under, the pressures you are put under for what you consider to be over-the-top and unnecessary practices. Perhaps in these reports you could describe what you feel you are being prevented from doing which you think would be time better spent.

    It might also be helpful if you were to post some or all of these reports, or at least post on the message board that you have sent a report to me, so that others can appreciate what is going on to support our protest.

    If you don't do any of these things, I shall just look very foolish and will be wasting my time 'coming out'.

    I shall still continue to express my own views about the nonsensical FSP and evidencing regimes etc, but I shall just look like an old maverick!

    (Which, of course, I am - but with good reason!)
  15. I have only filled in the profiles in the final term since we started using them.

    I use the profiles to help me write the children's termly reports in that the statements are quite helpful in this respect. The parents have no sight of the profile or their child's "score"

    I DONOT use post its. My class is covered in post its but they tend to be where the children have used them to label something.

    Evidence of academic skills are in their work books in which we do "formal learning".

    Evidence of practical skills is on the walls or in their draws or on their mums fridge.

    Evidence of their social skills and KUW (I'm still waiting to get number 9 myself) is in them and evidenced by the fact that they are nearly ready to go into Yr 1.

    I have photographs in albums for the children's pleasure. If that means some "expert" can come in and see that my children can do something because I have a photo of them looking at a brick so be it.

    I TEACH my class. And because of this at the end of the year I'll whizz through filing in the FSP's because MOST of the children will be achieving level 9.

    And before you leap in about level 9... I've been moderated I know what I'm doing.

  16. little *******... i was with you totally until it came to the last 2 paragraphs... I don't care if all your children get level 9 across all areas...that for me is not what it is about..it is about the pointless paperwork..which you appear to be spurning...

    Don't let us in fight..about which levels the chidlren are reaching,... when fundamentally we are arguing that the obsessive observing of children is totally pointless...

    Also count yourself lucky that you do not find yourself in an ISP school - where consultants are pushing you to observe... 3 pieces of evidence for each child..each half term... its unrealistic...
    and does not improve the quality of teaching or learning...

    there rant over for today!
  17. Rea1, How long would I have to be positioned at the shape display in order for 30chn. to display that they can begin to use mathematical names for solid 3D and flat 2D shapes and mathematical terms to describe shapes?
  18. NellyFUF

    NellyFUF Lead commenter


    my protest takes the form of questionning the advisor and protesting every time I see her... must have a poor reputation by now....

    I keep evidence in a file it is all a bit wild and there is a lot of it. One of the best ways to ensure no one reads anything is to make it too extensive and a little muddled.

    I keep tracking sheets for all the children, 7 per child and just colour in madly. Best fit and all that.

    It says somewhere that any form of tracking and record keeping is fine but of course it has to be robust.. how to prove that though with the pressures of ISP? It definately says that schools can use their own systems.

    It is ISP that deeply concerns me.

    So although I admit to some slackness with moderation and assessment I do keep every damn piece of info that anyone might need. I am drowning in paperwork. Peoples faces fall when they ask for info and I produce boxes of files for them to see.

    I will not analyse the observations which we have so copiously produced. I really do not have time, will, or understanding to do so. This is the bit I will reduce I think. I will just colour in on the basis that I know what I am doing.

    I like EXE.... assess by two factors
    * emotional well being
    * involvement
    This would be meaningful and nationally comparable and would reveal the massive differences in inner city stressed schools and others.

    It would allow us to simply state what we are doing/planning to help children progress
  19. NellyFUF

    NellyFUF Lead commenter

    to so shape you need to watch the children work independently on a adult suggested or child suggested project eg

    make a robot at glue table

    if you watched ours you would know they know little about shape and space, colour, position...

    but they would be very pleased with their creations!

    But do you observe or get involved? I'd just have to get in there and get sticky.
  20. Nelly, what I meant was I'll whizz trough and tick- not that I want them to achieve level 9 or even should- I do it because I have to it's a quick tick and very few of them do I have to ponder about.

    As I said some of the flamin knowledge and understanding skills are are a load of old bobbins and many adults I know would struggle to achieve them!

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