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Coming out re the Foundation Stage Profile

Discussion in 'Early Years' started by debbiehep, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. sadika

    sadika New commenter

    This is just the sort of thing our cluster moderating group would go on and on for hours about - all of them sat there with their mountains of evidence ... I just love the potted plant bit!!!

    "The prize for gormless complexity goes to the following box, under "creative development". I swear I have not made it up. "Expresses feelings and preferences in response to artwork, drama and music and makes some comparisons and links between different pieces. Responds to own work and that of others when exploring and communicating ideas, feelings and preferences throughout art, music, dance, role-play and imaginative play." Er . . . yes, give him a tick. Hold on . . . maybe no. Too undiscriminating on tambourine technique and lack of empathy when pretending to be a potted plant." Ted Wragg in the above article.
  2. I shall put a copy of this on my HT's desk in the morning! It will help to explain why I will NOT waste my 'teaching' time and attend any more moderation meetings unless they are compulsory and then I will try to be 'Debbie' and tell them how it really is and to hell with the consequences! Go Debbie!!!!
  3. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Brilliant! I hadn't seen that but I loved Ted and seeing it now makes me grieve even more for his passing.

    By the way, who actually wrote these horrible things? What mad, completionist, obsessive committee of mutants actually turned these 'ideas' into such garbled and hideous sentences?

    I will give A tenner to the charity of choice to the person who first fits a name to the profiles.
  4. Our LEA developped its very own profile for nurseries, and preschools,"even more comprehensive" than the national one, with lots of space for evidence etc. The time and money spent on inducting us all in them, the extra time wasted in explaining it to the rest of the staff!!... Used it for one year, realised it was completely useless - informs planning for further development? By the time I get to write it down, most children have moved on from that issue! Anyway, I used it for one year and stopped. I still obvserve children, decide where they need to develop further, speak to parents, teach them what I think they need to know. Most of my children are bright, fast developing, rewarding children, but quite a few have speech and language problems, behaviour issues and so on - things that have no real place or response in the profile. When a child pronounces "dess" instead of "guess" and "thire" instead of "fire", I consider it my duty to spend my time dealing with this, developing interesting activities to help, talking to speech therapists and persuade parents that it's no longer "sweet", that it may affect their phonics progress next year. I can't really spend my time writing every single detail in the silly book.
    And another thing:
    Recently, during a session for EYPS, I was asked for the "log" book in which I wrote down my "account and reflection2 regarding resolving a parental complaint against an assistant. The matter was solved, everyone is as satisfied as they are ever going to be, but at my question "What log book?", everyone on the course was agast that I don't actually write down the minutiae of running a nursery. They must be joking, I half-thought - they were not!!! Apparently, "I Am Not Covered!" Well, so be it! I just prefer to work with the children, and I do!
  5. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Well, I think everything is going to be OK, since it turns out that the baseline grid drawn up by my colleague and me gave more or less the same information as what it would have shown if we'd gone down the points road.

    Chance? A miracle? An excess of zeal on the Obs front?

  6. Why don't you all make 1st March "DOWN POST-ITS DAY!"

    From tomorrow, all of you stop filling in any post-its and labels. Write nothing down until at least half term and then simply sit down with a list of every child and think in practical terms as to where they 'are' and what you might do/change for the following half term.

    Meanwhile, continue to be observant in general terms for your own practice and for the needs of the children.

    Start to think independently, truly independently, on how you want to move forwards in your practice and how you want to move forwards with a simple assessment system.

    Ted Wragg said it all.

    I am going to post that article to Lord Adonis right now.

    Is this a case for the naked emperor file?

    Or should I say room 101?
  7. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Perhaps we should all post that article to Lord Adonis, an ssimultaneaously to all the major newspapers etc.
  8. sadika

    sadika New commenter

  9. NellyFUF

    NellyFUF Lead commenter

    With you all

    hope OFSTED went OK Inky

    In our authority the Early Years Centres have a breakdown on the pre yellow stepping stones with further numbers to fill in on forms. You can now have CLL 4c5. Hooray. Or CLL 4c4, Hooray again. Who cares?

    No one no one cares about the stepping stones and the eprofile. The required curriculum came in like the cavalry but the use of stepping stones for assessment is the death of real early years teaching.

    If we all refuse to fill out the eprofile than they can do nothing to us.

    Our early years advisors are wearing no clothes.

    All the sad assessment we do tells us, is

    that some children have a terrible childhood and are major disadvantaged and they live in the ghettos created by publishing the SATS results.

    And some children do a bit better.

    I made up all my baseline for nursery because the person who was supposed to do it never got round to it. OFSTED pored over this information. I told them how I teach phonics and how my children can read well. I should have said that some are so good at number that they have to be taught in year 2 when they are in year one . They said I should concentrate more on basic numeracy, literacy and social skills. What, no more flower arranging I cried!

    When I do my eprofile I make sure I come in just below the national and local average.

    At our last cluster our advisor said that we could assume that EAL children have language for thinking etc by their play with others, ie we do not need evidence, there was an outcry from all practitioners who have laboured with the evidence for so long and so hard.

    I have seen grown women weep when their individual profiles were criticised for containing worksheets as evidence.

    So I am assuming all sorts of things now when I assess.

    The stepping stones were put there to guide us. Not as an assessment/tracking tool. We are not supposed to go round ourselves and duplicate this guidance........its already in the document. We have to stop collecting evidence of our judgements.

    It's not rocket science, early years.

  10. If you do find the address, how about posting a link to this thread? I'm sure debbie's campaign will grow!
  11. Can I just say a quick thank you to the practitioners who post on the EY forum. I'm sure there are many others like me who lurk on this message board and learn a huge amount about the realities of life as a teacher. I know it's a bit off the point of the thread, so I hope you don't mind, but I wanted to make sure that you know how valuable your opinions and experiences are to others!

    I'm a PGCE student and often sit in my lectures and tutorials and wonder how on earth I'm going to cope with all the things I will be expected to do when I have my own class. Some days I feel as though I should give up because it seems unmanageable. It's very reassuring to read threads like this one and to realise that some expectations are unrealistic and that you would have to be Superwoman to do everything. And even then it still wouldn't be enough! I love working with children and am so excited about becoming an EY teacher, but I want to spend my time with the children not obsessively filling out forms. Thank you for reassuring frightened trainees like me that there is an alternative!
  12. inky? We don't do a baseline assessment as such, and we've been ofstedded. Before the children start in nursery I get some basic details from the parent (much as we would have done before when on home visits but we don't do them any more), then the children get assessed properly when they've been in nursery for half a term. And thereafter, termly with all the others. We use our own Nursery Record Sheet, which is easily manageable and leads onto the FSP. The only thing I write in the Profile before my little darlings go up to FS2 is a comment which summarises their ability. That's it. And we don't do post-its or written observations or any of that rubbish.

  13. Our local authority early years advisors have produced a document containing targets for 0-5 year olds.

    In the section for 0-11 months (I kid you not!)one of the targets is "can produce babbling sounds."

    Every time I look at this insane creation, I achieve that particular one spectacularly...

  14. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    We have a lot of pressure from our LEA, I think.
  15. I don't 'do' them either if that means filling them in all year. I keep work (writing, drawing, some photos and any ESPECIALLY perceptive comments).

    I'd keep these in any case
    1) it's nice for kids and parents to keep
    2) it is my assessment and is for my planning.

    For ofsted I showed them some photo albums of the lovely things we do.

    At the end of the year I level the kids - same as the rest of the school. I spend a few mins doing a 'best fit' on the FSP points. We have been moderated and that was deemed fine.

    We got a very good Ofsted. Kids are making great progress. Kids are hapy. I'm happy.
  16. info@dfes.gsi.gov.uk

    This is the email you could use to contact ministers. I have simply sent emails with the title saying, "Urgent attention of..."

  17. For your information - I have just sent the message below to Lord Adonis and Nick Gibb MP. These gentlemen have listened about the reading debate. Fingers crossed that they listen and respond now.


    Please find time to read Ted Wragg's article about the Foundation Stage Profiles.

    Here we are, five years later, and these ludicrous profiles are still in place as a statutory requirement.

    To make matters worse, pressure to observe children and provide written evidence in the form of constant photographs and thousands of post-it notes to support judgements re the profile points has proliferated beyond all reason.

    Untold numbers of practitioners hold the Foundation Stage Profiles in contempt and they are totally disaffected by the pressures placed upon them by local authority and early years advisers to provide prescriptive early years practice following prescriptive early years guidance. There is no consensus amongst early years practitioners and parents as to the validity and necessity of this guidance and prescription. In an era where the government purports to promote personalised learning, it is extraordinary that the early years should be so overwhelmed with pressures to provide formulaic practice with no understanding or respect for the teaching style of the practitioners and the different contexts in which they work.

    It is high time that this issue was addressed and there was a serious look at the Foundation Stage Profiles and the Early Years guidance and the continuous relentless pressure that practitioners feel themselves under.

    You have quite rightly supported the call to investigate the issue of reading instruction in schools and you are about to provide more detailed guidance for practitioners. It took a great deal of time and effort to gain the attention of ministers re this issue and you know that government guidance was seriously flawed.

    I am sincerely hoping that you will take seriously the attempt to point out to ministers the considerable discontent amongst practitioners providing for children who are still below school age. It is these same practitioners that you are hoping will support the government in introducing a synthetic phonics approach in the early years and it is very important that you fully understand the kind of pressures these practitioners are already working under.

    Quite simply, it is high time that there was a complete change in the climate for educational professionals. A line needs to be drawn under all that has gone before and the old rhetoric of 'challenge and support'. There has only been the 'challenge' for considerable time. It is insulting, for example, to describe the Intensifying Support Programme as a 'support' programme when it brings nothing but more pressure and bureaucracy.

    Please engage with ordinary people over these matters as soon as possible.

    Yours most sincerely,

    Debbie Hepplewhite - on behalf of myself and others
  18. Inspirational Debbie! Well done.

    I find myself frequently taking issue with colleagues about the things early years advisors are recommending to early years settings in our area.

    Not only that but the imapct demand for ticks and evidence makes on them and the means by which they end up employing to source all this pointless information. If you ask any of them about any child in their setting they can tell you so much without having to pick up a profile and see what's been ticked off. They know their kids.

    Next they'll be demanding that parents' must produce evidence before discussing profiles because their comments are not valuable without a post-it or a photograph - how can they possibly know what their own child can/cannot do if there is no evidence!!!

    I must stop now or would go on for ever.
  19. Life is too short to be collecting evidence everyday!! In a nutshell!

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