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Claim Employers NI Back From Umbrella Company

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by PeterTF, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. PeterTF

    PeterTF New commenter

    For anyone that has used an PAYE Umbrella company in the last 6 years and they have been deducted Employers NI and Apprenticeship Levy, there is now a company that went live on Monday 21st Sept 2020 which is assisting temporary workers claim this back with interest.

    I have tried to put the name of the company on here but for some reason it has not been posted so, inbox me and I will be happy to pass on details.
  2. PeterTF

    PeterTF New commenter

    For those of you that maybe wondering, I have 2 sisters that teach and they have indeed fallen foul to the deductions made by an Umbrella where they were not made aware at the beginning.

    I work in the Contractor Payroll industry and am happy to answer questions but please go easy on me :)

    It seems that a lot of what people say about Umbrella Companies is misunderstood and I would be more than happy to assist in helping you understand why some must use one and of course the good things to look for as well as the bad, there are plenty of the latter.
  3. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    Conflicting information out there. HMRC is clear (well, HMRC's version of clear) on employer's NICs: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-status-manual/esm2390
    However there is this test case (probably a test case) http://www.robjohns.blog/employment...-umbrella-employees-hit-by-unfair-deductions/ but it's only at Tribunal level and as far as I can see hasn't been appealed. The lawyer in this case is now trying to collect claimants for a group action, or rather for many group actions against many umbrellas. This is reasonably easy to find online, though it's interesting that as far as I can see only one law firm is putting a toe in the water. If it were more certain, I think the sharks would be circling, as they did for PPI.
    Not sure that I would hold out much hope here - the umbrellas are fundamentally middlemen with few assets. So if BrollyUnlimitedLtd loses a case against say 500 workers at say £2000 each, the £1M has already been paid to HMRC, who are entitled to the NI money, no matter whose bank account it comes from. Brolly won't get that money back; Brolly probably doesn't have £1M assets; so Brolly goes bust, workers get next to nothing. And yes I do have some interest in this financially, being married to someone under an umbrella.
    Will be interesting to see how it pans out.
  4. PeterTF

    PeterTF New commenter

    There was another case last December, 'Mr P Weldon v 6Cats' and this went in the favour of the worker. Albeit, the value was low and they settled out of court, it is the opinion of lawyers for Umbrella Reclaim that this will be the case for most. Their case is built upon many factors, deductions were made unlawfully where the worker was not notified in writing explaining the breakdown of the e.g. £15ph as well as the fact they may have been instructed to use an Umbrella from a list of preferred suppliers thus no freedom to choose their own.
    With respect to the Umbrella not having enough assets to cover any court award to the worker, UR are convinced these actions will see most Umbrella companies close their doors but the liability does not go away as it is passed down the chain to the agency and in some cases the end client. If the agency operates a Preferred Supplier List, takes rebates for passing workers to the Umbrella and fails to offer Key Information Documents then they are definitely on the hook!
    Believe me, I am fully aware of the marketplace and how it operates and even to this day these companies do not have their acts together.

    There are already talks taking place with the UNITE with respect to running a story for their members in order for them to make a claim on mass. These deductions were unlawful, some workers raised their concerns when they saw the first payslip and were told that it had to be that way........the courts
    disagree with that!
  5. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

  6. PeterTF

    PeterTF New commenter

    My apologies as you are correct that there was a judgement, it was more the fact it was not contested and maybe because it was such a low amount. I do not know too much about Umbrella Reclaim other than that they are lawyers looking to reclaim monies in a similar way to the PPI claims, I am glad they are doing.

    What harm could there be in investigating if you could get monies back that should not have been deducted from you in the first place?
  7. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    They are asking£100 or so up front. Clearly the umbrella didn't contest on the basis that fighting and winning would cost more; once a biggish group action gets appealed, we'll know what is what.
  8. PeterTF

    PeterTF New commenter

    I guess time will tell but the banks didn't put up much of a fight paying me back my money.
  9. Skeoch

    Skeoch Star commenter

    True only after test cases had been appealed.

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