1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Children being sent to unsafe illegal schools

Discussion in 'Education news' started by ricjamclick, May 21, 2016.

  1. ricjamclick

    ricjamclick New commenter

  2. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    It is likely that the parents are aware that it is not an "official" school, but have actively chosen an education that conforms to their prejudices. I am torn between conformity and independence. Our monolithic "one size fits all" system is a nightmare.
    However, these places are not likely to be the solution I was anticipating.
    delnon, wanet and ricjamclick like this.
  3. ricjamclick

    ricjamclick New commenter

    I agree with most of what you say, except for the fact that we have a system which is possibly too varied and certainly not monolithic.

    The big question to my mind is how can we make sure that the system isn't circumnavigated By parents in this way: how can we deter people from declaring that they are home educating the children and then then not home educating them, or giving them an inappropriate education, or in the very worst cases abusing them?
    wanet likes this.
  4. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    By having an education system which is coherent, stable, properly resourced, adequately staffed and not subject to the febrile whims of some bungling amateur in Westminster?
  5. ricjamclick

    ricjamclick New commenter

    I'd like to see those things, too, denlon. But it doesn't seem to me to deal with the substantive point: people who wish to indoctrinate their children with unsafe ideologies in unsafe places will still be able to declare their children to be home educated and continue this practice, even if all the things that you describe happen.
    wanet likes this.
  6. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    True enough; but are these the motives in all cases? My crystal ball is a bit cloudy on that issue.
    Parents wishing to have their children indoctrinated in their own beliefs are not a new phenomenon.
  7. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    wanet likes this.
  8. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Who on earth teaches in those places ?
  9. englishtt06

    englishtt06 Occasional commenter

    I guess the burden of monitoring and policing falls on local authorities and social services: another tick box for them to check off. This is clearly an issue (particularly in terms of safeguarding) but I find it wearying because it is yet another example of the public sector having to step-in for the vagaries of poor parenting. Call me jaded after a back-breaking, exam-driven half-term, but I grow tired of having to try and make up for poor parenting....yet more public servants being held accountable for the capricious whims of parents. For my money, I'm with France on this one: all schools should be secular. However, it would seem hypocritical in our society to criticise a parent for choosing a school on ideological grounds: surely private schools, religious schools and Steiner/Montessouri fall within this definition, too?
    delnon and ricjamclick like this.
  10. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Oh for a world where a good quality education was available free to (and obligatory for) all children in a school local to their place of residence. No choosing schools based on location, reputation, religion or anything else. You attend the school nearest to you and if your parents want you indocrinated in any religion or anything else, they do it in their own time.
    genabi, delnon, Flere-Imsaho and 2 others like this.
  11. Luvsskiing

    Luvsskiing Occasional commenter

    In any great democracy like ours, we must give people the right to plot and undermine our values and way of life. We must defend their right vigorously, until we are no more.

    One major problem has been caused by rapid, uncontrolled immigration. This has placed a strain on schools. I've seen more schools than most in the last three years being on supply. They are all bursting to the seams in schools where the buildings are generally dire, which causes behaviour problems and stressed staff. There is no slack in the good schools, little choice despite the headlines about parents getting their choice of schools. Grammar schools are an abomination in some areas, creating a stampede to get away from lousy bog standard comps full of God-knows-who and dragging those left into ghettos of low standards. The range of languages spoken is causing standards to fall as a lot of teacher effort is put into supporting these students and not going on teaching students. Those arriving from Eastern Europe, especially the very poor countries struggle to behave in the English system. Many are frankly feral. Add to that the rise of untrained cover supervisors, teachers voting with their feet and the deep negativity that has resulted from Morgan and Gove behaving like dictators, and you can see why parents choose alternative schools. Oh, that and parents wanting their children to grow up in a religious bubble, where their own prejudices and resentments of the West and Christianity can be festered and nurtured.
    George_Randle likes this.
  12. englishtt06

    englishtt06 Occasional commenter

    Hate to disagree but - since we're talking in generalisations - that has not been my experience of migrant children at all: if anything, in the 'sink' inner city schools I taught in, the migrant children were the loveliest. In fact, I'd go so far to say in ALL the schools I've worked in, migrant children were some of the most grateful, respectful and hardworking students I have encountered. In these schools, migrant children were still in the minority so I'm not sure they are entirely (or at all) to blame for the burgeoning class sizes: slashed budgets and lack of teachers are more probably the cause.
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Certainly not the case in my experience. Children of Eastern European immigrants are invariably polite and eager to learn, I find, and where I have heard of problems it is because EAL students have been dumped in bottom mainstream sets together with SEN students. Frustrate any child's intelligence and ambition for long enough and they will eventually act up - in this non-British born kids are no different to British-born kids.
    ricjamclick likes this.
  14. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    The report says;
    'Sir Michael Wilshaw said a crackdown had found more than 100 suspected illegal schools - half of which were faith-based, Ofsted said.

    Roughly a third of them were Islamic and a sixth either Christian or Jewish.'

    I am in no way defending schools which do not teach a broad & balanced curriculum and skew their teaching towards extreme religious positions - however, out of the more than 100 schools found, half were not religious in character. This issue is solely, nor even primarily, concerned with illegal religious schools.
  15. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Experiences will of course vary, and others are available. I deal with both kinds described on a daily basis.
    wanet likes this.
  16. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    General Medical Practitioners deal with lots of ill people.
  17. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    Yes. Illness doesn't respect nationality.

    Thankfully we have good doctors to help them. Instead of wondering why they can't just be well.
  18. ricjamclick

    ricjamclick New commenter

    Looking into my crystal ball, which I do frequently, I would imagine that the evil blues might want to turn the other 93 into Free Schools with a little help, so are considering their options.
  19. ricjamclick

    ricjamclick New commenter

    It's not my place to moderate, but thinking of the children I work with on a day to day, the 'feral' element you mention are not exclusively from Eastern Europe. Moreover, I have had many immigrant children who are simply a delight to teach, as well as others who I would describe as needy.
  20. ricjamclick

    ricjamclick New commenter

    Yes indeed, far less possibility for complete proselytisation by the system in France. But also quite heafty state control. Could we devise a better way with this particular issue?

Share This Page