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Child 33 joining Y2 after Christmas

Discussion in 'Primary' started by clawthorpegirl, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. clawthorpegirl

    clawthorpegirl New commenter

    Started the year with 30 pupils, two won places on appeal during September and now a third will be joining us after Christmas. Anyone else in a similar situation? I always thought 30 was maximum for KS1 but have been told that these is such a shortage in our LA that this no longer applies!
    Have lost my role play area to make room, can barely move from one end of the room to the other and now have 33 EVERYTHING to mark, assess, APP, report on etc. To top it off my TA spent most of the day yesterday labelling books, folders, assessment records, pegs, trays, birthday display, etc etc only to find out today that the name we had been given was actually his middle name so now have to do it ALL again (although am considering just calling him the name we were given!)
    OK moan over, feeling better and sure we will be fine!
     
  2. Is your TA full time? I think it is that if a KS1 class goes over 30, a full-time TA is required...or it may even be another teacher.
    It is attrocious though - how on earth can you provide a high level of education when you have got to get to know 33 children !? Preposterous. Your head needs to seriously consider hiring a new teacher and splitting the class.
     
  3. harsh-but-fair

    harsh-but-fair Lead commenter

    It's supposed to be another qualified teacher .... But there are exceptions



    There are certain situations where children are not to be counted for the purposes of ascertaining whether or not the limit of 30 is exceeded. There are two main categories of these excepted pupils.

    The first category covers ?pupils ?admitted in unforeseen circumstances?. These are defined as follows:
    where a child moves into an area outside the normal admissions round and there is no other suitable school within a reasonable distance
    Where a child receives a Statement outside the normal admissions round
    Where an extra place has to be offered because an error has been made in the admissions process that leads to a pupil being refused a place incorrectly
    Where an appeal panel decides that an admission authority has made an error or acted unreasonably in initially refusing to admit a pupil

    In admitting such pupils, the size of a class is allowed to exceed 30 for the remainder of the academic year, but in the following September such classes must be reorganised to meet the class size limit.
     
  4. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/m/managingcompliancesept08.pdf


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    <a name="Exceptions">[/URL]Permitted
    exceptions to the infant class size limit






    6. Regulations prescribe the limited
    circumstances in which pupils may be admitted as exceptions to the infant class
    size limit. These exceptions are:





    a.
    children
    with statements of special educational needs who are admitted to the school
    after the normal admission round;


    b.
    children
    moving into the area outside the normal admission round for whom there is no
    other available school within a reasonable distance. From February 2007, legislation has required admission authorities to get local authority
    confirmation that a child falls into this category before admitting them as a
    permitted exception.
    This means that
    the LA will need to check whether there are places available for the child at any
    other school within a reasonable distance of their home;


    c.
    children
    admitted outside the normal admission round because the person responsible for
    making the original decision recognises that an error was made in implementing
    the school&rsquo;s admission arrangements and that a place should have been offered;


    d.
    children
    admitted where an admissions appeal panel upholds an appeal;


    e.
    from February 2007, where
    the child is looked after and the local authority which is the corporate parent
    either (as admission authority) decides to admit the child to one of its
    community or voluntary controlled school, or directs another admission
    authority to admit the child outside the normal admissions round.


    the child will be an
    excepted pupil for the remainder of the academic year in which they were
    admitted</u> unless they could readily be accommodated within another suitable
    infant class in the same school. This means that, for that academic year, the
    admission authority does not have to
    take measures to comply with the infant class size duty e.g. employing an
    additional teacher. But it would have to do so for the next academic year.






    8. Other
    pupils are permitted exceptions for any
    time they spend in an infant class and their presence does not put the school
    under a duty to take measures to comply with the class size limit. These are:
    &middot;
    Children
    attending an SEN Unit, forming part of a mainstream school, who spend part of
    their time in mainstream classes;


    &middot;
    Children
    on roll of a special school who spend part of their time in classes at a
    mainstream school.


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    1. Schools will
    meet the infant class size requirements if an infant group of no more than 30
    is taught by a &lsquo;school teacher&rsquo;<a name="_ftnref1"> [/URL] School
    teachers include:





    &middot;
    Head teachers


    &middot;
    Qualified teachers


    &middot;
    Overseas trained teachers


    &middot;
    Instructors with special qualifications or
    experience


    &middot;
    Staff on an employment-based teacher training
    scheme


    &middot;
    Graduate teachers


    &middot;
    Registered teachers


    &middot;
    Student teachers


    &middot;
    Teacher trainees yet to pass the skills tests




     
  5. Agreed. I now have 31 based on this piece of legislation.
    Unfair and causes issues. LUckily the child we have received is able, well behaved and coping well. But it dilutes everything within the class. 33 is unreasonable.
     
  6. clawthorpegirl

    clawthorpegirl New commenter

    Thanks for replies and advice. Luckily I do have a full time TA - although as 14 out of my current 32 are on Special Needs register I certainly need them!
    I understand how places can be awarded on appeal but definately feel 33 is pushing it, I would love to know how many pupils are in other Y2 classes in local schools. Even if Head and school were able to fund another teacher where would we put them? What would happen next year?
     
  7. I totally sympathise and am in a similar situation but have 37 pupils - far,far too many for any class let alone KS1! They came together in Y2 after being split in Y1 to meet the 30 limit. Finding it difficult to really get to grips with the wide variety of needs. What can you do? I really think that 20 max in a KS1 class is what we should be aiming for; to provide the best possible teaching and learning experiences and the sanity of the teacher!



     
  8. Msz

    Msz Established commenter

    Limit on infant class sizes

    3.&mdash;(1) This regulation has effect for limiting class sizes for infant classes at schools in England for the purposes of section 1 of the 1998 Act.

    (2) No infant class at such a school shall contain more than 30 pupils while an ordinary teaching session is conducted by a single qualified teacher.

    (3) Where an ordinary teaching session in the case of any such class is conducted by more than one qualified teacher, paragraph (2) shall be taken to prohibit the class from containing more than 30 pupils for every one of those teachers.

    (4) Where an infant class at such a school contains any excepted pupil (as defined by regulation 4), paragraph (2) or (3) shall apply as if he were not included in the class.

    (5) Any limit imposed by this regulation shall apply in relation to the 2001&ndash;2002 school year and any subsequent year.

    (6) References in the 1998 Act to any limit imposed under section 1 of that Act shall, in relation to schools in England, be construed in accordance with this regulation.
    Limit on infant class sizes

    3.&mdash;(1) This regulation has effect for limiting class sizes for infant classes at schools in England for the purposes of section 1 of the 1998 Act.

    (2) No infant class at such a school shall contain more than 30 pupils while an ordinary teaching session is conducted by a single qualified teacher.

    (3) Where an ordinary teaching session in the case of any such class is conducted by more than one qualified teacher, paragraph (2) shall be taken to prohibit the class from containing more than 30 pupils for every one of those teachers.

    (4) Where an infant class at such a school contains any excepted pupil (as defined by regulation 4), paragraph (2) or (3) shall apply as if he were not included in the class.

    (5) Any limit imposed by this regulation shall apply in relation to the 2001&ndash;2002 school year and any subsequent year.

    (6) References in the 1998 Act to any limit imposed under section 1 of that Act shall, in relation to schools in England, be construed in accordance with this regulation.
    Excepted pupils

    Excepted pupils

    For the purposes of regulation 3, a child to whom any of paragraphs 2 to 7 of the Schedule applies is an excepted pupil in relation to an infant class at a school unless suitable education could be provided for him in another infant class at that school without relevant measures having to be taken.

    These Regulations apply in relation to any school in England which contains an infant class
     
  9. This year I have 32 in a mixed year 1/2 class. Next year it is due to go up to 33. I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice on what the rules are for class size if the school knows that the class will be 33 next year. What should I say to the head teacher? Or my union? I have a full time TA if that makes any difference.
     
  10. If our class size goes over 30 due to "circumstances beyond our control" we get additional funding which pays for another teacher. We are a small school and have mixed age classes, our PAN is 15 so if we have say 11 in R/1/2 we are over class size and have to have an additional teacher-which County funds. This has happend for the past 3-4 years and we have gone from a 3 class school to a 4 ( currently have R, 1/2,3/4 and 5/6 ) for this time. Every year we worry about our Reception intake as if the total went below 30 for R/1/2 we would lose our additional funding and have to go back to 3 classes

    I had the same in another school where the LA cocked up and admitted 31 into yr 2, we were funded for an additional teacher then too!
    It might be worth making enquiries of your LA ( these were two seperate LAs) to see if funds are available ( apparently some LAs keep quiet about it[​IMG]) and you have to ask!)
     
  11. Waiguoren

    Waiguoren New commenter

    Oh no!

    Lots of sympathy; just one suggestion - for APPs, can use the children's ability groups, and just assess one child for each group?

    Good luck!
     
  12. Just a thought - my first class of Year 1 children had 38 in it with no TA or any other kind of assistance - and I am still teaching!!
     
  13. For 2011 there will be 42 children in my grade 1 class, few years ago, I had to manage with 52!!! (also with no TA or any kind of assistance) Actually in the part of South Africa that I'm teaching, TA's: non-existent....
     
  14. A few years ago on my NQT year I had a class of 36 year 6 children in a portakabin!! That was a lot of marking, expectations were high with little thanks for all the hard work! Oh and I didn't have a TA at all! Thinking about it now I shudder at this memory!!
     
  15. clawthorpegirl 30 in a class?


    I think that, if there is any Regulation, like all the others in Education legislation, it will be effectively optional if it suits authority. Is there anyone out there who would deny that TAs are doing work (including things that would once have earned a supplementary allowance) that is supposed to be done only by someone with a degree, teaching qualification and QTS? If that can be ignored, what cannot? Probably the only parents that know children may receive a significant part of their education not only from someone who is not a teacher but from someone with NO qualification at all (40% of TAs) are teachers.


    Having left school-teaching many years ago, I have been astonished - despite my cynicism about politicians - to discover that all the claims about reductions in class sizes, which never seem to have been refuted, are apparently untrue. Given the following, I feel justified in my contempt for all those "responsible" for running our education "system" for most of a century:

    In my very good (then and now) grammar school we had classes of 30 in the mid-1950s (which I sensed then and realised later was too many). I have a copy of its history, published just after the millennium. It records that in their generally complimentary Report, the main criticism by the nine-strong team that gave the school its first post-war Inspection was that the majority of classes had 30 or more pupils. That was in February 19<u>25</u>.
     

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