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Challenging adjusted CIE marks

Discussion in 'English' started by howlinmad, Aug 13, 2015.

  1. howlinmad

    howlinmad New commenter

    After having consistently agreed S&L marks in past years I have been gutted that CIE dropped all our candidates 2 marks. I know they do it with unit 4 c/w and accept that. I wondered if anyone has ever challenged the moderation and how they a) go about it and b) got on? All suggestions very welcome.
  2. kellyvallham

    kellyvallham New commenter

    You can query results and that includes asking for coursework sample to be re-moderated, www.cie.org.uk/.../enquiries-about-results

    but it costs a lot in my opinion (ask your exam secretary).

    I fear we're at the mercy of the moderators when it comes to coursework!
  3. akz

    akz New commenter

    I've just looked at the breakdown and they have agreed speaking and listening marks, adjusted coursework up by one mark and have awarded students getting As and Bs in mocks Es and Us. Last year we were fine with our mock marking in relation to the final exam.

    Does anyone think it would be worth challenging all the marking even though there are some As and Bs in there?
  4. kellyvallham

    kellyvallham New commenter

    They got Es and Us in the final exam? Our students definitely had much lower marks in the final exam compared with mocks and past papers they had done, but I think it's possibly got something to do with the new format of question three, the summary, and how it is marked.

    I'd challenge all the marking if it was free, but sadly it's not!
  5. akz

    akz New commenter

    It was just the exam they had an issue with. Last year the marks in the exam were in line with what they were getting in mock papers. I know that it was harder to get a C in the exam 27 this time round) but from consistently getting good A grades following the mark scheme to Es and Us is a big drop. However £33 per challenge might be more than my school is willing to pay for them to review the whole lot.
  6. CarolineEm

    CarolineEm New commenter

    Re: getting the exam board to review the whole lot:

    Previously, with a different exam board, we had to put in 10% of the cohort for remark and 50% of these had to go up by a reasonable amount in order to trigger a whole-centre re-mark at no charge. It was then a case of very carefully selecting those candidates whose papers we felt were most likely to go up. We had to pay (the school / department financed it all as not all parents were able / prepared to) for those pupils. I've been through this twice before. Once we did get the full centre remark and a huge improvement in grades and therefore got the re-mark money back; the other we didn't.

    It is a very delicate situation to be in though - choosing only those candidates who you feel would go up but also, as marks could go down, making sure it isn't anyone near the bottom of a grade boundary who might lose their grade. You have to have the candidate's permission, and some were too worried about going down to be prepared to give this. We also had to ask other pupils whose weren't in our selection and who we felt had been more fairly treated in the first place NOT to go for a re-mark as it might affect our 10%. It was an admin nightmare and we were lucky to have an amazing Exams Officer to support us. We also had to justify it to the Senior Team because of the potential cost, which of course depends on the size of the cohort - at £33 per shot.

    However, you could start by selecting just a few who you really feel have been mis-marked and test the water. You'll need to do this pretty soon though, if you want them back in time to make a decision about putting any others forward in the light of the first batch, before the closing date for re-mark requests!

    Just a thought - is the exam report out and does it have anything which might be relevant? And another thought - could they re-sit at Christmas?

    I hope this helps.
  7. wigglyworm

    wigglyworm New commenter

    Interested in the comments regarding adjustment.

    Our S&L has been adjusted down 1 in the mid mark range, up 1 in the lower mark range and left alone at the top.

    Our written c/w component 4 has all been adjusted down 2 - the comment above from howlinmad seems to suggest this kind of adjustment is common - is that really the case? This is our first full cohort entry. I have not yet received moderator's report for any justification.

    My major concern is good students getting Es and Us - probably more Us than Es to be honest in the component 2 exam. I'd like to challenge the marking of the exam but am interested that others have experienced the same.
  8. cupcake1788

    cupcake1788 New commenter

    Our results are disappointing. Our speaking marks were upheld and even had a mark added to the bottom end. The coursework had one mark taken off at the top end and one added at the bottom. The exam is our biggest concern (paper 2 0522 syllabus) as many of our students got e or u grades. There seemed to be no range as there were some a grades but no b or c grades and then straight to e and u grades. Interesting to see that others are experiencing the same.
  9. english.teacher

    english.teacher New commenter

    It's upsetting, but somewhat comforting we're not the only ones in this boat.. Our component 4 (anything we had marked above 30) was adjusted by two marks down. And we're surprised by the exam marks... they seemed to really struggle...

    I think I will request a few papers back to see what happened. Not sure what question they struggled the most with - I am guessing question 2...
  10. becorleansky

    becorleansky New commenter

    I agree with you English.teacher that's it's upsetting but it's also rather maddening. In today's climate I'm struggling to think of words to explain these results. There appears to be no sense or reason to the marks awarded for the Component 2 exam. My grades range from an A to a U and these are GOOD kids, who performed well in their mocks and have worked their socks. My CWK was upheld with some middle ability folders even being raised by 1 mark. I'm ready to quit quite frankly
  11. cheerysocks

    cheerysocks New commenter

    This makes interesting reading. Our core left intact, the extended adjusted but only some. Does anyone know of 1. Tolerances in 4 needed to be exceeded for adjustments 2. How the adjustment of the first marker marks is done and what tolerance there is as a marker before all your scripts are adjusted?
  12. howlinmad

    howlinmad New commenter

    Thank you all for your responses, it is reassuring that we are not alone although it doesn't help the poor kids. I have sent as many as 50 students back for remarks in the past and only had 2 moved up. I have been meticulous in selecting students for remark this year and could still easily have 50+. On another note, as a CIE examiner for 05/22 there have been multiple issue with marking, I'm still being harassed to remark. It concerns me how quickly after results some centres were asking for remarks, they must have obtained 'permission' beforehand which is very dubious. In response to wiggly worm, I went to a Pixl conference during which they said CIE had adjusted lots of centres by 3 marks last year. I think I will have SLTs backing financially and might contest the lot! Again, after team leading for CIE and the shockingly unprofessional way some people 'mark' exams it is worth a shot. Lots if our students got e and u grades who had consistently performed much better on their mocks too. I feel like throwing the towel in quite frankly. Thanks again.
  13. torpedodelraval

    torpedodelraval New commenter

    We had similar experience. Speaking marks upheld at higher and lower end but adjusted down by 1 mark for C,D, E students. We also had a huge number of students getting E or U grades for component 2. We appealed for some students last year but none were changed. We're going to appeal again this year but I'm not very hopeful. Is everyone staying with IGCSE for next year or anyone considering changing board?
  14. Unffordd

    Unffordd New commenter

    I am an 0522/0500 Unit 4 TL.

    Wigglyworm - sadly, an adjustment down of 2 is pretty common. Many UK centres vastly underestimate the importance of accurate SPG and send in work riddled with errors. There's also a lot of misunderstanding of the nature of assignment 3, and hence higher than justified reading marks.

    Cheerysocks - there is no tolerance at all in Unit 4. If your moderator discerns a trend, the marks will be altered.

    Can't remember was it was that said they hadn't got a moderator's report yet, but one will be on the way. The Principal Moderator's report will be very helpful to centres and clear up many misunderstandings.
  15. cheerysocks

    cheerysocks New commenter

    Thank you.I'll be reading our moderator's report with interest
  16. Unffordd

    Unffordd New commenter

    Hello again Cheery,

    If you are uncertain about anything when you get you Moderator's Report, I'm happy for you to PM me to ask for clarification. Don't ignore the Principal Moderator's report, either, as he spends a good deal of time writing it and there will be a lot of helpful information there. If you feel your centre needs some training then CIE will be happy to send someone, though there is a cost. I'm not touting for business; I'm too busy teaching to be a trainer!
  17. wigglyworm

    wigglyworm New commenter

    Hi Unffordd,

    Whilst I agree with you that the PM report is extremely detailed, our centre moderator report which arrived in the post today (somewhat later than results and weeks after all other boards), is a thank you for sending our sample and a one sentence comment on our adjustment. It is impossible to draw on the enormous range of feedback offered in the PM report and relate it to what we may or may not have done in our own c/w because the brevity of the moderator report provided just does not offer any detailed idea of what we have 'done wrong'. As a moderator of CA for another board I am required to write a proper report that offers clear exemplars about why the marking can or cannot be supported. CIE do not seem to offer anything like the same kind of detail.

    With ref to your note above we do not seem to have misinterpreted Task 3 and no comment regarding SPG has been made.

    I know you don't speak for the board, but just wonder whether others have found their moderator's report less than enlightening! Given that a 2 mark adjustment on c/w makes a significant difference to a centre I think a little more explanation would be in order.
  18. Unffordd

    Unffordd New commenter

    Hello Wiggly,

    You are clearly very unhappy with CIE, and I doubt whether anything that I, a pseudonymous contributor to an internet forum, can write anything that will change that. However.....

    The CIE moderator's report has seven tick boxes on it. If any of these have been ticked in the 'needs attention' column, there must be a comment in the space on the left for the moderator to provide clarification. Obviously, if the marks have been adjusted then something in the 'needs attention' box will have been ticked. Many of the reports I see and proof-read are detailed and offer extremely helpful advice; some even go onto a continuation sheet. I therefore feel miffed about your comment that CIE reports are not 'proper' ones. However, we are specifically directed not to refer to individual candidates, and that makes CIE reports very different from, say, AQA ones.

    If your moderator's report is unhelpfully brief, then that is clearly disappointing, and I suggest that you ask CIE for further clarification and guidance. I can think of how this clarification could be provided quite easily, but I don't want to go into specifics that I should not reveal.

    Hope that helps,

  19. sunflower48

    sunflower48 New commenter

    Can I also agree with wigglyworm. Our moderator's report lacks any detail. Our whole cohort was put down 2 marks with the slightly lenient box ticked however in the notes box underneath nothing was added. The larger box underneath headed Comments thanked us for our administration and the only other comment was that our tasks were too generic and then gave us an example which in my opinion was just as generic. My gripe with this is it does not seem justification to lower marks over task titles which does not seem to have a focus on students actual speaking and listening.. When we have been with WJEC we have the most detailed report back and on S&L visits to the school have exemplary reports and have never once been challenged on these, so I am finding this hard to understand. We also used the same teachers assessing students and used the same tasks as last year and did not have one comment about 'needs attention'. Is it possible to challenge for a whole cohort enquiry on this Unffordd?
  20. kellyvallham

    kellyvallham New commenter

    Our cohort for the written coursework was brought down by 2 marks and the 'slightly lenient' box was ticked; the comments section then said it was the 'nature of the mistakes' that made them reduce the marks. But they also added a reminder not to give 'specific corrections' to the students' work, which actually I make it a rule not to do, obviously because they've said not to! My suspicion about this is that they've looked at the students' first drafts, have seen the students' corrections and simply assumed that they are mine! But why would a teacher send something to the board that the board have clearly 'outlawed'?

    Are any of you switching from coursework to the writing exam instead?

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