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Discussion in 'Further Education' started by stevesgh, Sep 23, 2006.
I would say so Ripitup (although it is rather confusing!)
as far as I know, a cert ed / pgce / level 4 cert in FE teaching are all level 4 qualifications. Confusion arises on whether it is an FE college or a HE institution awarding the certificate - in FE, a level 4 is equivelent to an HE level 5. so if your cert ed is awarded by a university (even if it's run through a college) it will say level 5 on it. a bit confusing, but there you go. most places should know this, I agree with the previous post - shame on the teacher trainers who can't figure it out.
The Cert Ed is level 5 qualification ,end of argument, the PGCE is level 6. Please stop posting incorrect statements. It is clearly defined in the NQF standards and the level of each is clearly indicated by the written part of how levels are arrived at and what constitutes them.
sorry if my explanation is incorrect. I have a Level 4 Cert in FE teching although my certificate says Level 5 on it. I was told by the University in Leeds that their Level 5 is equiv. to an FE Level 4 (hence was the title of my course) and it is the equiv. qual. level as a cert ed. If that is wrong, excuse my posting on here, although their explanation was backed up by my manager and teacher trainers.
Thanks for that, I now understand that you have been misinformed as to your level of achievement hence the confusion.
Our CertEd is currently Level 4 old money. Will be Level 5 new money from next year & PGCE Level 6 new money.
sorry to muddy waters further but there is currently no definitive answer to the 'level' debate. the level you are assessed/work at is dependent on the organisation that validates the award. it is relatively straight forward for the 7407 folk but once you enter the portals of HE organisations, all bets are off. Many universities will offer a cert.ed/PGCE that can be attained at 'FE' level 4,5,6 - often dependent on entry status and the level that the student works at. Some universities will only offer validation at level 4, some 4 & 5, etc, etc, etc. Sometimes the provider organisation will present their model as 'the' model and this is very confusing!It looks like QTLS will sort out the level debate (but I will watch that space with caution!)
I completed my 1 year PGCECE in 2005. Without getting too technical, there were 50 on my course, only a few did not have a degree. They did a Cert/Ed. The rest of us did the PGCE (to be honest wasn't much extra work involved). We were told by the course leader that it was equivalent of a 2nd year degree.
However, we reckoned it was equivalent of a masters due to the amount of work involved. Most final year undergrads do a 10,000 word dissertation (plus a few essays). In that year, I had to do 5 x 5,000 word dissertations, one major project, as well as having to produce lesson plans and handouts for all the classes I taught in. I estimate that I wrote over 60,000 words that year. Some people get a PhD writing less...
I was also wondering what level the Cert Ed was at. Whilst reading previous entries on this site I read one from Petekeeffe in october stating that he felt pity for brickies, chippies and hairdressers due to the level of study required. Let me state that I am a humble electrician and have found the level of study to be within my range of intellegence. I am also aware of several brickies, chippies and hairdressers continuing onto a degree course after the Cert Ed. It is thoughts like this that enforce the stereotypical opinions of skilled operatives. Please keep your pity for people who need it.
A full 7407 stages 1,2 and 3 from sept 2007 will be reconised as a level 5 qual.
Although the cert-ed hasn't yet been confimed (something to do with the uni's aparently) it almost certainly will be
Could you cite the source of your information regarding the 7407 - 1/2/3 please Mr Frog?
Well don't that just beat all?
The 7407 series is on its way out, the QCA on approved this extra year because SVUK didn't get its act together and tyhe new standards signed and tyamped in time for replacement pros.
7407 Steg 3 can only ever be a Stage 3 Level 4 qual unless and until it's re-written to comply with new standards which, after the 02/03 '7307 'at Level 4' fiasco (we were daft enough to pilot that mess before we and Guilds came to our senses), is unlikely to happen.
Whatever replaces 7407 Stage 3 (Certification - QTLS stage) will be at Level 5 unless they build in an H3 Level 6 element for graduates who shouldn't be on the programme anyway, graduates should always opt to do PGCE (or PCE as will be) at L6 validated by a HEI.
Lee did you get my begging email re IfL resources ?
The PGCE is a level 5 qualification.
No I didn't Pete - surely you don't think I would have ignored you!! Where did you send it (not such a daft question as I think the development@ addy may not be mapped to my personal account since we switched servers during our office move) ...... I'll drop you a line so you get the direct addy.
I found this, is it any good to anyone
Hope the docs you were after arrived Pete
Ta Lee, they did and I prompltly and fooloshly deleted 'em due to still not being used to this blessed Yahoo email screen.
Could you forward the email and attachments to work please?
done - let me know if you get them
Didn't we discuss this last year? I'm sure no one could agree then either!?