1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

catholic school application - references from whom??

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by gillian2607, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    Pah! Quite the opposite. In my LA, if you don't have a RC cert, you might as well cash in your chips, there's no work for you.
  2. I was brought up Catholic and so I guess had the option to teach in a Catholic school but I never would as I don't see myself as a practicing Catholic and I wouldn't pretend to be just to teach in a Catholic school. I don't agree with Catholic schools for a number of reasons which I'm sure have been exhausted on previous posts. So I guess they are one Catholic teacher down on my part! What astounds me more is the number of non-Catholics within these schools due the supposedly better behaviour. [​IMG]
  3. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    In Scotland, is there some barrier to Catholics becoming teachers?

    In some cases the opposite is true. I know that for the Primary sector, Glasgow Uni has a set number of places set aside for Catholic applicants only with the remaining places open to applicants of all faiths and none (including Catholics)
  4. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    Thank you for that information.
  5. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I believe, though, that Glasgow Uni are the only ITE provider which trains students in the Catholic Teaching Certificate and, as such, have a duty to take on enough Catholic teachers. That's what they told me at interview anyway. Also, during my course several people quit the CTC course with no consequence.
  6. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter


    Glasgow Uni don't have a 'duty' to allocate places for only Catholic applicants.

    This situation emanates from the sale of St Andrews college (where Catholic primary teachers were previously trained by the Church) in Bearsden to Glasgow Uni in the 1990,s.

    Part of the deal was that they would get the franchise on training teachers for RC primary schools. It is not a duty (I don't doubt that's what you were told) but a sweetner to make a deal go through. The fact that students dropped the module with no repercussions shows that the certificate is not essential.

    The legality of allocating academic courses from organisations that are largely publicly funded purely on the basis faith has never been challenged.
  7. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    I stand corrected (kind of). That makes sense. I did know about St. Andrews college (and presumed that's where the building housing the Fac of Ed got its name) but didn't know about the 'deal.' It was put across to me that they had some sort of legal responsibility to take on Catholics but your explanation sounds more realistic.
  8. Perhaps best answered like this?
    My (Primary) teaching degree qualifies me to me teach Maths, am I a mathematician? No, because there is so much beyond primary level that I don't understand.
    My (Primary) degree also qualifies me to teach Language - am I expert enough to use this knowledge 'professionally' ? Again, no because there is so much beyond primary level that I don't understand.
    I think the teaching issue for all of the faiths that you mention is not so much 'can this be taught as an individual topic out of a book', but more one of 'can this be lived in all aspects of school life'. Not that I'm an expert - that is simply what I gleaned from my placement in a Catholic school whilst studying for my degree.
    You mention Hinduism, Sikhism and Judaism - do think you'd be successful in gaining a teaching post in schools of those faiths?

  9. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    I'm not asking to teach as a Maths teacher or an English teacher at secondary level (although I am qualified to teach maths at secondary level and have done in the past)- I am a qualified Primary teacher and am able to teach both maths and language 'professionally'.
    A moot point really, since Catholicism seems to be the only religion that the governemnt chooses to support in this fashion at present. Children of all other faiths seem to integrate into the mainstream, non-denominational system without losing their identities, and being taught by teachers of other (or no) faith doesn't seem to do them any harm.
  10. Perhaps it exists to counter 'Scotland's Shame'?
  11. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    What do you mean St Joseph?
  12. As am/have I. But the point I was trying to make was that teaching a faith as a discrete subject is entirely different from both believing and living as a member of that faith - which is what faith schools would appear to prefer - understandably IMO.
    Seem may be the operative word here - they may seem in your eyes to integrate without losing their identities, but that is only in your eyes. In the eyes of others, those identities may be unacceptably watered down - and that's the issue
  13. I'm sure you know exactly what I mean. Read today's Independentfor a taste...
  14. Here's a link. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/rising-above-great-divide-2489414.html
  15. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    St Joseph

    I do know exactly what you mean but I don't necessarily agree that it is secret or as endemic as many say it is. In fact many politicians exaggerate it for party political gain. I also believe that sectarianism is a 2 way street (in many cases even more).

    Sadly, there is prejudice in every society and at every level (I don't mean that it should go unchallenged) however, in my opinion, I don't think it is a valid argument for retaining denominational schools and discriminatory employment practices that go with it.

    I reckon if we were starting the country from scratch tomorrow we probably wouldn't have them, but we have got a denominational system and until the Catholic parents / Church say otherwise then they should stay although i'll always argue being a Catholic doesn't automatically make you a better teacher or a better person.
  16. mmm
    Thank you and good night.
  17. Davieee- you do seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Catholic education. What?s essentially different is that Catholic schools find their orientation in the person of Jesus Christ. His life and death and resurrection are the motivation for learning, teaching and achievement. This doesn?t necessarily make a school ?better?, but it certainly gives everyone a clear idea about it?s mission and purpose. Teachers in Catholic schools- like I stated before- give witness to the faith, they don't just teach it.
    I think it?s a proud tradition that Scottish state offers parents and pupils a choice of schools, and, contrary to an assertion made by another in this forum, there are 389 faith schools in Scotland funded by the State- 4 of these are not Catholic.

    Also, what makes you think you don't have to be a Catholic to gain the CTC?
  18. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    I stand corrected: in fact 98.96% of Scottish state funded faith schools are Catholic. Same difference, really. Are you caling me a liar for 1%? Come on, now.
    I notice that the only non-Christian faith school in Scotland (for the record it is Jewish, not Muslim) appointed a Catholic Head Teacher in 2006. It seems that there is no barrier to non-Jews in the Jewish faith school.
  19. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    "Catholic approval shouldn't be that difficult to obtain, provided you're not anti-Catholic!"
    Is it possible to be a Presbyterian without being anti-Catholic?
  20. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    Yes. The vast majority aren't anti Catholic. Your own prejudice against Presbyterians, however, is palpable. BTW, not all non Catholics are Presbyterian!

Share This Page