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catholic school application - references from whom??

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by gillian2607, Dec 31, 2010.

  1. I have had an interview for a catholic school and all went well. However, i have now hit a brick wall when it comes to providing the name of a referee to the Church Rep (Marna Clarke). She wouldn't accept a reference from a teacher friend of mine (who is catholic) and said my ref had to be my Parish Priest.

    As a non-practising catholic this is impossible. For all they say that you dont have to be catholic to teach in a catholic school, you obviously do have to attend church of some description in order to get the priest/minister to provide a reference as to your religious character.

    Is there anyone who has managed to get a job in a catholic school who is not a catholic or church-goer? if so, who gave you a reference???

    At my interview i explained i was brought up a catholic but do not attend Mass and this seemed to be accepted. the school is now not making a decision about who gets the job (there were only 5 of us) until they get this reference OK'd by the Church Rep. Help!!! I really feel I am in with a good chance of getting this job but this , in my view discrimination, is about to scupper everything.
  2. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    Gillian, you don't say whether you're applying in Scotland or England - I know the process is different in both countries.
    Assuming you're in Scotland (as this is the Scottish board) as far as I'm aware you do not have to be Catholic for a standard teaching position, nor do you have to be a church attendee - you just have to be able to demonstrate that you are of good character and will uphold the standards expected by the Catholic church. This can be different though for promoted posts, so I would suggest that you check with your union / local authority for advice.
  3. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    What Amysdad says is technically correct, but as the OP says (I've encountered this prob before) if you don't have a RC cert you have to get proof of your religious character etc which involves you getting a ref from your parish priest and then that being signed off by the Dioscese. I never worked out how you get past this if you are non practising, unless you have a family friend who is a priest! (I think the process is easier for Secondary than it is for Primary)
  4. Yeah I can't figure out how to get round this. Surely it is illegal & discriminatory to reject me because I don't go to church. !!??
  5. True, but it's highly unlikely that, if they do reject you, that is the reason you will be given. I would imagine that they would offer other, job related reasons - if they are required to tell you why at all.
    It sounds to me that you will simply have to tell them that you can't get the required reference and hope for the best.
  6. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    A friend of mine got a job (secondary) in a denominational school. He got a reference from a Ht in a school where he had a placement during his PGCE year.

    As someone has said earlier, i believe the the Primary sector is more difficult.

    Its a shame that this happens. The university says you can teach, your probationary school says you can teacht and Disclosure Scotland says that you have good character but a cleric says that you are not.
  7. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    Let me know if you work out how to get round this- I only know one non-practising RC who got a job using RC approval rather than having a cert- he takes his kids to RC church weekly despite being CoS (married to RC) so his kids' priest signed him off. My LA has advertised a number of jobs recently some permanent, som temp, some temp pointages, almost all denominational. The LA says all we need is RC approval, but this is no help as in reality you need to be a practising RC to even apply for a 0.1 temp contract. Funny, then, that probationers are still placed in denom schools when non- RC. I can't get my head around it.
  8. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    The ecumenical movement is a fraudulent conspiracy. We, Catholics, believe certain things but, in order to humour the Protestants, we are invited to pretend that we do not believe those things. The Protestants believe certain things but, in order to humour us, they are invited to pretend that the do not believe that the Pope is an anti-Christ. Those who promote the ecumenical movement want us to be dishonest with ourselves and to be dishonest with the Protestants. They want the Protestants to be dishonest with themselves and to be dishonest with us.
    The ecumenical movement is the religious equivalent of a business merger - aimed at creating a spiritual monopoly. It should be investigated by the Monopolies Commission - or whatever it is called nowadays.
    Only practising Catholics should be allowed to teach in Catholic schools or do their placements in Catholic schools, Only the children of practising Catholics should be admitted to Catholic schools. It says in the bible "Come ye out from among them". Or, as the Americian poet, Robert Frost, put it "Good fences make good neighbours".
    "The truth shall set ye free; now you are free."
  9. Si N. Tiffick

    Si N. Tiffick Occasional commenter

    Oh, St Joe, why, oh why did you feel the need to shake up that hornet's nest?
  10. Hi Gillian,
    I'm not an expert, but I have read the rules, being a non-RC, who recently applied for a job in a RC school. As non-RC all I had to do was prove good character, and had a flamboyant, eccentric (& delightful!!) anglo-catholic colleague ready to vouch for me.
    As a RC, albeit non-practicing, they ask you for a reference from your parish priest. I imagine the thinking behind this is that - as part of the RC system, if there's something wrong with you your parish priest will know about it. I'd suggest you ask your priest for their advice before you write off your chances for this job. In this event, you'd be able to send off the sensible reference you already have, but add a note that they can also contact Fr X who is your parish priest but doesn't know anything about you - other than that you are not known in the parish as a trouble-maker.
    Local parish priests can, of course, vary in their attitudes. You've nothing to lose by asking (unless it's Father Aber!!)
    Good luck...
  11. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    "What, the Pope really ISN'T the Anti-Christ?"
    Do you believe that the Pope is the Anti-Christ? And please, keep it short and simple. Let your answer be "Yes" or "No".

  12. @ daviee
    My understanding is that the antichrist will look more like a goat or other horned beast than like a Rottweiler.

  13. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    No, I don't think the Pope is the anti christ but if you believe the newspapers he was / is a Nazi who also harboured paedophiles later in life.

    Here's a question for you. Is it acceptable for a head of state to be

    A) the anti christ
    B) a former member of the Nazi Youth
    C) a paedophile harbourer.

    A simple yes or no answer to all 3 questions Aber.
  14. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    Like a randy paedophile?
  15. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    A. Yes - but not in a Christain country
    B. Yes
    C. No .

  16. It's simple for some of us to say "**** the Pope", but not as easy as "**** the Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland" . . .
  17. As another non-practising catholic I have also had problems getting Catholic approval. I did my probabtion in a denominational secondary school (I had not ticked the RC box, but thats where I was placed). I was completely honest and asked my manager from my previous job to be my reference, and I was given approval without a problem. The year after probabtion I was doing supply, however this time, I did not get approval. The reason I was given was that I was not a practising Catholic. No different to the previous years then?! So not sure why I got it the first time?!
  18. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    What is a "non-practising Catholic"?
  19. But, surely there are enough teachers who are Catholic in the school who could carry out the preparation for sacraments? Most Catholic primaries have some non-catholic staff - as long as there are enough to observe religious duties it shouldn't be an issue. A reference from someone who says you are of sound character, and willing to uphold the teachings of the church should suffice.
  20. Aber1991

    Aber1991 New commenter

    "Most Catholic primaries have some non-catholic staff"
    In Scotland, that would, indeed, seem to be the case. Why do most Catholic primary schools in Scotland have non-Catholic staff? In Scotland, is there some barrier to Catholics becoming teachers?


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