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Caster Semenya loses appeal against IAAF testosterone rules

Discussion in 'Personal' started by nomad, May 1, 2019.

  1. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Caster Semenya has lost a landmark case against athletics' governing body meaning it will be allowed to restrict testosterone levels in female runners.

    The Court of Arbitration for Sport (Cas) rejected the South African's challenge against the IAAF's new rules.


    I wonder if the governing bodies of other sports may begin to follow suit?

    BetterNow and lardylady like this.
  2. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Why did you use a picture that appears to be of a transgender person in sport? Rather than one of Ms Semenya...who, of course, ISN'T transgender.
  3. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    This is unfortunate for Ms Semenya and those in her position but might well prove a boon for women's sports.
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    That person you suspect to be transgender is, of course, transgender and has said a great deal about testosterone levels in sport, particularly in this case, therefore the photograph is an appropriate reference.

    BetterNow, nomad and Ellakits like this.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I should add that much of what this person's party says about the effects of testosterone upon athleticism is disingenuous &or false.
    BetterNow and nomad like this.
  6. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    NB This case is being discussed on R4 'World at 1' at the moment...
  7. nomad

    nomad Star commenter


    Because the ruling is one of testosterone levels in athletes - specifically runners - and I queried whether it may soon apply to other sports (perhaps such as cycling).

    Of course it is.
    BetterNow likes this.
  8. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    It applies only to athletics, and only to a very limited number of races over specified distances. So, no I don't think it is relevant.
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Of course it is relevant. The person pictured speaks on the issue often.
    BetterNow, Ellakits and nomad like this.
  10. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    BetterNow likes this.
  11. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Then don't engage in the conversation.

    FWIW, there are already issues of testosterone in competitive cycling.

    There is no testosterone standard across all sports. Under the NCAA’s rules, a trans female (male to female) can compete in women’s sports after completing one calendar year of testosterone suppression treatment, while a trans male (female to male) can no longer compete in female sports after starting testosterone replacement therapy.

    The IOC has its own rules, which were revised in 2015 (the previous rules required transgender athletes to undergo irreversible genital surgery). Under the IOC rules, transgender males are allowed to compete in the male category without restrictions. Transgender females face more restrictions. They must show that their testosterone has been below 10 nanomoles (one billionth of a mole) per liter of blood for 12 months prior to their first competition. They must then maintain at or below this level through the period of eligibility. They are subject to testing.
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  12. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Unfortunately this is only one federation. In another's event on Sunday gone a lifter identifying as a woman won all nine of the events in which they competed and, as far as this particular federation is concerned, set four new world records for women:

    Trans Athlete DEMOLISHES Four Women's Powerlifting World Records
    DailyWire.com, 30th April 2019.

    BetterNow likes this.
  13. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    I'm questioning your strange choice of illustration for a thread entitled:

    'Caster Semenya loses appeal against IAAF testosterone rules'

    It's almost as if you want to debate a different issue...;)
  14. Ellakits

    Ellakits Established commenter

    The ruling Caster Semenya challenged specifically relates to testosterone levels in XY individuals with disorders of sexual development (DSD) who compete as women.

    It doesn’t include transwomen in this category.

    I’d like to think it had a knock-on effect and also limits transwomen athletes, but the cynic in me feels sure that somehow the McKinnons of this world will find a way to circumvent and challenge it.
  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    There should be, given the frequency with which transgender activists confound their claims with the issues faced by people with intersex conditions.
    BetterNow and Ellakits like this.
  16. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    The move, which is sure to divide opinion, was unanimously approved by the IAAF council last month. According to the world-renowned sports scientist Ross Tucker, the effect will be significant on athletes such as Semenya. “If this policy passes, then I would predict that Semenya will be five to seven seconds slower over 800 metres,” he wrote.

    “The other really interesting thing is that, guided by the new IOC transgender policy that lowers the upper limit for testosterone to 5nmol/L, the IAAF are setting their limit at 5nmol/L. It used to be 10. That will slow the times of these athletes down even more than it did in the past.”

    He told the Guardian: “History suggests Semenya will lose about four seconds to five seconds. Because in 2013 and 2014, when the IAAF were diligent about ensuring her compliance with the upper limit at that time (10nM), she was running 2:00. I don’t think she even qualified for the Commonwealth Games. Now, at 5nM, that effect will be even larger, I suspect. She will go from a 1:54 to 2:01-2:03, is my estimate.”

    “This evidence shows clearly that (at least in certain events) DSD athletes with levels of circulating testosterone in the normal male range have a very significant competitive advantage over female athletes with testosterone levels in the normal female range.”

    It also uses numbers to back up its case. As it notes: “In particular, increasing testosterone levels in women from 0.9 nmol/L to just 7.3 nmol/L increases muscle mass by 4% and muscle strength by 12-26%; while increasing it to 5, 7, 10 and 19 nmol/L respectively increases circulating haemoglobin by 6.5%, 7.8%, 8.9% and 11% respectively. Taking all available knowledge and data into account, the experts estimate that the ergogenic advantage in having circulating testosterone levels in the normal male range rather than in the normal female range is greater than 9%.”

    “To the best of our knowledge, there is no other genetic or biological trait encountered in female athletics that confers such a huge performance advantage.”

    This was from The Guardian 26/04/2018.

    Semenya does have usually high levels of testosterone. She has raced in some events with suppression meds and her times have really suffered. Her testosterone is natural to her. She's made that way.

    I'm really stuck with this.

    She was assigned female at birth. She's always lived as a woman. Socially.

    But does she have an intersex condition? Does she have the Y chromosome? We don't know. That's not been disclosed.

    How does her case differ from an unusually tall male with far greater stride length than the average?

    My knee-jerk reaction is to be satisfied with the ruling. The women's events exist so women have a go at getting some medals etc. They're not going to get anywhere competing against men in sprints or marathons. You have only to compare the times. If women compete who appear to resemble men? What is there for the others?
  17. Ellakits

    Ellakits Established commenter

    Incidentally, it’s worth remembering that the ruling body IAAF regards XY DSD athletes as legally female, but biologically male.
  18. Ellakits

    Ellakits Established commenter

    The ruling Semenya was appealing against specifically relates to XY athletes who compete as women, it doesn’t cover XX athletes.

    If Semenya was XX and not XY this ruling would have been irrelevant to them, so Semenya wouldn’t have launched an appeal at all.

    The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with “46 XY DSD” – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes. Accordingly, individuals with XX chromosomes are not subject to any restrictions or eligibility conditions under the DSD Regulations.”

    Quote from the press release:
    BetterNow likes this.
  19. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    She's a bloke
  20. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Only in your twisted little mind.

    Stop flaming.

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