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Carmichael And Representation of the People Case

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Marco82, Dec 9, 2015.

  1. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    If like me you were disappointed by the result of the court case brought against Carmichael by four of his constituents then you should think about donating to help them cover their legal costs, estimated at £105,000. The judgement showed that Carmichael had indeed authorised the leak of the infamous memo - I will say no more than that - but found him not guilty of breaking the Represnetation of the People Act. This leaves the petitioners facing immense, possibly ruinous legal costs and I feel it is the duty of every decent citizen to come to the aid of people who were trying to uphold probity in public life; they were acting on behalf of all of us. I don't know how to direct you to the web site but maybe someone else can help out here.
     
  2. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter


    Rubbish. They made their bed and they can lie in it.

    I'm in no way condoning what Carmichael did but the original complaint was not raised for any moral or altruistic reason but for naked political gain. If it were me in Carmichael's shoes, i'd do my best to recover any of the financial costs incurred I could.

    If people want to uphold probity in public life, then they should start with the £150k of taxpayers money to the organisers of T in The Park or the SNP government spending £30k in order to suppress "legal advice" that they never had.
     
  3. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    There was no way the establishment was going to disown one of their own type. I never had any confidence it would succeed, although it was nice to see that hideous lump squirm for a bit.

    Carmichael is toast and so is his party in Scotland because of his shenanigans. Mud sticks. Had he done the honourable thing and cleared off his party would be in a better footing. They're gubbed now and for the next decade - the price of keeping one MSP means they'll probably lose a handful of MSPs next year.

    So to quote the poster above, they have made their deceitful bed and they can jolly well lie in it. The electorate won't forget.
     
  4. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Don't know enough about it to justify if this is money well spent - it there is a sizeable benefit to the Perthshire economy then it might be worthwhile

    However governments of all colours have ploughed tens of millions into the SFA for donkeys - what do we have to show for it? A **** National stadium, corruption at the highest offices (rubberstamping certain individuals "fit and proper") and a national team that can't qualify for national finals whilst dross like Northern Ireland and Iceland can.
     
  5. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    Here is the link to the crowdfunding website:

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-versus-carmichael#/

    One of the contributors above claims the case was brought for purely political reasons, by which I presume he means the complainants were SNP supporters. How he knows this I don't know, but I heard an interview yesterday on Radio Scotland with one of the four and she said that she has voted for Corbyn in the leadership election and was basically a supporter of progressive politics. Anyway, what difference does it make to the issue at stake?
     
  6. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    I reckon most Scots would argue that Football is our national sport and as such should be supported although i'm not sure I would stoop to describe other, and currently more successful, countries as "dross".
     
  7. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    There is no need to insult our intelligence.

    1stly I never said they were members of the SNP, you did. They were / are members of the local YesScotland who made a complaint not about the referendum but the General Election. As I said, this was nothing to do with morals or altruism but naked political gain.
     
  8. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    The "memo" did exist he did not make it up.
    He did lie about knowing about it. I think if we are going to take every MP & MSP to court about telling lies then we will be very short of both types. I have noted the lack of input from our first minister and her predecessor. Both these people have been caught telling lies to the Scottish Parliament. should be take them to court.

    Should our representative be honest in there political and private affairs, yes. Are they human like the rest of us....... not sure about that.

    I am not looking forward to Scotland being a 1 party state, I don't think it will help any of us.
     
  9. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    A flawed argument. It's a democracy and if you don't like who is governing you, go out and campaign for someone else or stand for election

    When the Labour Party had over two thirds of the Scottish Westminster representation this was fine then? Smells like a one party state to me or very close to it.

    And when the Tories continue to rule over us with one seventh of the popular vote and one MP that's fine as well?

    The Scottish Parliament was effectively designed to ensure nobody had an overall majority. Whether you like it or not people voted for the SNP because they were utterly sick of the Labour and Lib Dems - these are parties of course who campaigned recently with the Tories and that sticks in the craw of many Scots (regardless of their Yes/No preference) - and they'll be tainted for a long while as a result of it.

    The SNP also advocate PR for Westminster which would rid themselves of over 20 MPs. But this would destroy the cosy Tory/Labour "rotation" of governments and isn't going to happen. Effective government requires strong opposition, and although I'll vote SNP, I wish there was stronger scrutiny of some of their policies (such as in education) but you can't really blame them for winning the most seats when the opposition is so weak.
     
  10. gnulinux

    gnulinux Occasional commenter

    Errr No and No.

    What an appalling attitude - where does racism begin???
     
  11. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    [QUOTE="gnulinux, post: 11521916, member: 128656"


    What an appalling attitude - where does racism begin???[/QUOTE]


    It begins as an illusion in your head, which clearly needs examined.

    Just what is racist about saying the national football teams of Northern Ireland and Iceland are a "higher quality of dross" than Scotland?

    But then again you've got history on here for trolling
     
  12. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    Effin, it's not worth getting involved in an argument with some of the contributors here. They are very angry and think that abuse is a substitute for argument. My initial post was a simple appeal to anyone who might want to make a donation but it was immediately met with a lunatic diatribe. It does surprise me , though, that people like this, who seem a bit unhinged, are out there teaching kinds how to be, what is it again "responsible citizens" and "effective contributors". Ha, ha.
     
    Effinbankers likes this.
  13. Effinbankers

    Effinbankers Lead commenter

    Totally agree Marco.

    But back to your initial post on Carmichael, and I'm not actually that bothered about him staying put. He's severely damaged goods and so is his party every time he shows his face.
     
  14. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    Effin, me too,he's discredited himself and someone should have tapped him on the shoulder and told him to do the right thing. My reason for posting though was that I felt really sorry for the girl yesterday who was involved in the case. She seems genuinely decent and now faces a huge bill which could have major consequences for her as a trainee lawyer for she would be disbarred from her profession if declared bankrupt. That is a terrible price to pay, especially for a young person and it makes me mad to read people here demanding a pound of flesh just because she may, just may, have voted yes in the referendum. Where is the humanity in that? And on the point at issue, I am not naive and know what liars many politicians are. But to go to the lengths that Carmichael did, using tactics reminiscent of a banana republic, while representing a party that claims the moral highground, that was a step too far. Or have we become so cynical that we just shrug our shoulders and say anything goes? Where do you draw a line between what is acceptable and what isn't? These are important questions and deserve better than just abuse.
     
  15. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    I dont care how she voted in the referendum but only pointed that out to highlight my belief that her actions were not driven by morals or altruism but by political gain. The bottom line is the complainers are educated people who made decisions of their own choosing and if folk want to bail them out then best of British. However if they were fed false promises and are left to carry a financial can then they only have themselves to blame.

    Oh please. Carmichael lied about being the source of, or having knowledge of a briefing but a banana republic?
     
  16. Marco82

    Marco82 Established commenter

    No, he made up a story to discredit his opponents, spread it over the media, insisted it was true when it was challenged, lied on tv about being the source of it, tried to pass the blame onto an underling, dissembled to the committee set up to investigate it then finally, when cornered, tried to pass it off as a mistake. Some mistake! Now he is crowing about how he has been justified and wants our sympathy for the hell he and his family has gone through. Self inflicted hell of course. Maybe there's a lesson there for him the. Anyway, you are entitled to your view that the petitioners should just sup it up, but I and many others are sympathetic and will do what we can to help them. Your assertion that they were not driven by anything but political gain - what political gain could they possibly have? - simp,y seeks to discredit ordinary people and with no proof at all to bakck it up. However, I notice you have moderated your tone since your first unbalance attack on a simple piece of information that I why I choose to reply to you. Stay on the learning curve!
     
  17. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    I have as much "proof" that you have and have formed an opinion around that.

    Thanks for the sage words. One day I hope to as much of a condescending codpiece as you are.
     
  18. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Just like the lies he told.
    :)
     
  19. bigjimmy2

    bigjimmy2 Lead commenter

    Storm in a teacup.
     
  20. davieee

    davieee Occasional commenter

    Absolutely, they all do it at some stage. The point I was making is that the people who raised the complaint did so for for political gain too and were dishonest when they said it was to get a better / different MP.
     

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