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Carl Beech found guilty

Discussion in 'Personal' started by nomad, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    It is clear to me that some police and other judicial people were grandstanding in the Beech case (& others - the Yorkshire police & BBC as regards Cliff Richard, for example). This is a total waste of public money and attracts those seeking fame as well as conmen/women.

    Let's spend the limited resources we have on crimes that can actually be solved and the perpetrators prosecuted...
     
  2. Jesmond12

    Jesmond12 Star commenter

  3. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Seems Tom Watson is unable to tell the truth too.

    Labour's deputy leader Tom Watson has said he had met Carl Beech - convicted of lying about VIP abuse - to offer him reassurance on behalf of the police.

    Police say they cannot find any record of contact between the force and Mr Watson on this subject.

    Speaking to the BBC, Mr Watson said Beech had come to his office in Parliament on 8 July 2014, which was three months before the start of several lengthy interviews with the Metropolitan Police.

    The Labour MP said the "purpose of the meeting was to reassure him that the Metropolitan Police had assured me that they would take him seriously if he made allegations."

    He added: "My job was to convince him that the police would listen to his story. The police asked me to reassure him that they'd take him seriously."

    A spokeswoman for Mr Watson later added that, before the meeting with Beech, he spoke to a police officer who asked him to provide the assurances, but that Mr Watson could not remember who this was.

    A spokesperson for Scotland Yard said it had not identified any records at this time relating to such contact.
     
  4. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    I expect Cliff Richard will be celebrating that he's way past his cell by date now.
     
  5. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    It seems that Harvey Proctor is to stand against Tom Watson at the next election in revenge for the Labour deputy leader’s links to a paedophile who falsely accused him of the murder and torture of children.

    Mr Watson has faced growing calls to stand down from his leadership role in the wake of the conviction of Carl Beech, who now faces years in jail for perverting the course of justice.
     
  6. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Good luck to him, but Tom Watson has strong support in West Bromwich, which I can't see as a strong Tory area.

    I met Harvey Proctor some 30 years ago when we had a house in Richmond and he ran a charming but expensive shirt shop just off the green. I bought a silk scarf as the shirts were far beyond my means (but John Major was apparently an enthusiastic customer for shirts.)
     
    nomad likes this.
  7. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    The pernicious nature of false accusations can be seen in the story of this teacher, Simon Warr:


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49072066


    Simon Warr was a teacher at boarding schools in Suffolk for most of his career, taking language classes and rugby with older pupils.

    He was 59 when his life changed, with a bang on the door one day at 07:15.

    "Four police officers swept past me, pushing me on to the cabinets, and the fifth one read me my rights," he tells the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme.

    A former pupil had alleged he had been touched inappropriately after a PE lesson 30 years earlier.

    "I said to the police, 'I don't teach PE, I don't teach 12-year-olds games'," he says, "but they just wouldn't listen."

    And

    In Mr Warr's case, details of his arrest were broadcast on the BBC that evening.

    His diary, photos, computer and phone were confiscated and, he says, used by officers to contact "numerous" former pupils.

    "The police tried desperately for others to come forward.

    "When they went to see former pupils... it was made quite clear I was going to be prosecuted and they were looking for people strong enough to say I'd done similar things to them.

    "They had no intention of getting to the bottom of what happened. It certainly turns the whole edict of 'innocent until proven guilty' on its head."

    And

    Six months after Mr Warr was arrested, he was told a second former pupil had come forward alleging he was abused.

    Both complainants were old classmates and friends. Both had already been awarded compensation in a different abuse case at the same school.

    Mr Warr says he received threatening emails. A Facebook post said if he killed himself it would be the "best Christmas present ever".

    By that stage, Mr Warr adds: "I wasn't eating, I wasn't sleeping. I was a wreck."

    And

    It took almost two years for his case to come to trial.

    His barrister told the jury he had never taught a single PE lesson. A complainant and a witness both changed key details of their stories. More than 20 ex-pupils, parents and teachers gave evidence in his defence.

    It took the jury only 40 minutes to find him not guilty on all seven charges.

    Mr Warr cried with relief.

    "I'll never get those years back," he says. "But it's not just the fact my life could have been ruined.

    "One of the biggest tragedies of cases like mine is that it makes it more difficult for people who have actually been abused to be believed."

    In a statement, Suffolk Police said: "We collated the available evidence and presented it to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) who made the decision to charge [Mr Warr]."

    "The [CPS] lawyer decided that there was sufficient evidence to progress to the courts and that it was in the public interest to prosecute."

    The College of Policing has now written to the Home Office to suggest guidance should be changed to say any investigation should be taken forward by police with "an open mind".

    Simon Warr left teaching after his trial, saying the publicity made it difficult to get another job.
     
  8. Dragonlady30

    Dragonlady30 Star commenter

    Beech given 18 years. Is that enough?
     
  9. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    I expect those of his victims who are still alive willl think that rather light for the damage he has caused with his lies and false accusations.
     
    artboyusa and Dragonlady30 like this.
  10. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    The issue in the background to a lot of this is about believing people when they say they have been the victims of abuse. In the past too many victims of abuse weren't believed so "someone" decided that the official guidance must change so that police and social workers in particular were instructed that in future anyone complaining they were victim of child abuse must be believed. Whether that was exactly how the guidance was worded I don't know, but it's how front line police etc understood it.

    So it led to a culture where the alleged perpetrators were assumed to be guilty before the investigation even started, hence the treatment they received during the investigations. It's classic example of trying, for good motives, to correct one wrong - victims of abuse by powerful abusers weren't believed - they moved to the opposite extreme where fantasists like Beech could cause great damage to wholly innocent people. Hence to College of Policing's attempt to move Home Office guidance closer to a 'middle ground'.
     
  11. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    While I wouldn't disagree with any of that, Commissioner Hogan-Howe admitted that while the Met knew from early on that there was no case to answer, they couldn't stop the investigation for fear of being accused of not doing it thoroughly. It was suggested today by the late Greville Janner's son that Tom Watson was instrumental in creating panic over a fake Westminster paedophile ring, causing the police to press on with a hopeless case.

    In addition the inquiry into Operation Midland by Sir Richard Henriques identifed 43 specific failings of the police in the case, some of which are truly horrendous, such as announcing that Beech's allegations were credible and true - something that only a jury should decide - and Superintendent Sean Memory pulling a stunt by broadcasting an appeal for more victims from outside innocent prime minister Heath's house in Salisbury (and he, of course, being dead with no living relatives, could hardly complain).

    Of course, these are all specific examples of what you rightly describe as the background issue of assuming that victims of abuse must be believed or, to put it another way, the accused must be guilty before there is even a trial.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    Rott Weiler likes this.
  12. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    How Labour can keep him in place I don't know. If he had a shred of decency he'd quit.
     
    artboyusa and Laphroig like this.
  13. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter


    If he actually served 18 years, yes. But he won't.
     
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  14. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Has Tom Watson apologised yet?
     
    lanokia and Laphroig like this.
  15. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    artboyusa and Dragonlady30 like this.
  16. Dragonlady30

    Dragonlady30 Star commenter

    SO true!!
     
    nomad likes this.
  17. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    I am certain I heard the judge has said he should serve 9 of those 18 years. Does this mean he has effectively been given 9 years and not 18? (That with so called good behaviour he is out after 9 years or certainly eligible to be?)
     
  18. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Probably not. What it means is that Beech can apply to the Parole Board after 9 years to see if they will agree to his release under licence to either an open prison or into the community. They will consider his behaviour in prison and whether or not he has accepted his guilt (yesterday the judge said Beech had shown no contrition).

    If parole is granted, it will usually require regular reporting to a parole officer, possible unpaid community service and typically restrictions such as not leaving the country or approaching certain people or places (such as schools), perhaps a curfew and maybe wearing an electronic tag.

    Any breach of the conditions would result in an immediate return to prison. In addition, members of the public can now demand details of parole board decisions and, thanks to new powers introduced only last week, parties to the case can challenge those decisions

    Having said all that, I think it very unlikely that Beech would be granted early release for 3 reasons:
    1. He is a convicted paedophile
    2. He has been shown to be a manipulative, devious, serial liar
    3. He absconded to Sweden when he realised he had been found out
    I think it probable that he will have to serve the full 18 years.
     
    dumpty and nomad like this.
  19. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    And there are other victims - Beech's wife (separated since 2010) & son:

    How could I have got him so wrong? Nurse who was married to 'Nick the Fantasist' - real name Carl Beech - reveals horror of discovering he was a paedophile, her agony when he blamed their son and the circus of his monstrous abuse fantasy


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7291081/Carl-Beechs-ex-wife-speaks-out.html

    As well as the lies about well known people, he tried to implicate his teenage son!

    Dawn is an emotional wreck. One moment she sobs uncontrollably, the next she flushes red with fury, particularly over the fact this despicable man actually tried to blame their son for the indecent images of children police found on his computer, before pleading guilty in a court case earlier this year.
     
  20. artboyusa

    artboyusa Star commenter

    No excuses for Tom Watson. And no excuses either for ex-Met commissioner "Baron" Hogan-Howe either. Unscrupulous, cynical, wicked. So of course they made him a Lord and gave him a £5m pension.
     
    lanokia and nomad like this.

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