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Can't continue with supply work after 5 years of not completing induction?

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by israhafeez, Nov 3, 2016.

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  1. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter

    Hi guys

    I am completed my PGCE in July 2015 and started doing day to day supply work in September 2015.

    I managed to complete one NQT induction term in April-July 2016 (this year).

    Unfortunately I was not able to apply for any job for September 2016 this year due to some unforseen circumstances.

    What I wanted to know was that if I am not able to complete my last 2 induction terms for the next few years then is it true that I also won't be able to get back into day to day supply work after 5 years? This is what I read online and just want to know if it is true. So I won't be able to do cover supervisor work day to day cover?

    Sorry if that's a bit confusing
     
  2. peter12171

    peter12171 Star commenter

    It is true that people can't work on day-to-day supply after five years; any supply taken after that has to be long term and count towards the NQT year. I completed my PGCE in 2013 so this is looming for me before you!

    I don't know about cover supervisor work - we certainly can't work as a supply teacher; a cover supervisor role might be possible, but it would obviously be at cover supervisor rates.

    Of course it isn't necessary to pass NQT to work in academies, free schools or the independent sector; but most schools in those areas would want it completed.
     
    les25paul likes this.
  3. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    You've got plenty of time yet
     
  4. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter


    But I'm worried if I cant work this whole academic year then try and apply for a job in September 2017, employers will not want to take me on because I've not had experience for a whole year. How do I overcome this issue?
     
  5. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter


    Hey yhanksfor your comment!

    Hope you get it completed soon!

    I am quite worried that if I apply for jobs next September then schools will not give me a chance because I've not had experience for a whole year :(
     
  6. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    apply for QTLS, it costs around £500 and takes around 6 months, but once you get it and maintain your registration, you can work in schools because having QTLS is equal to QTS under present regulations. You can also in theory work as a instructor or CS until then, and then you are maintaining school experience.
     
  7. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter


    Hey thanks for this!

    I already have a QTS but need to complete my NQT. Will the QTLS mean I dont have to complete my NQT?

    Thanks
     
  8. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    It is a complex issue, but in theory the answer is a simple word 'Yes', because having been awarded QTLS is regarded as having done your induction. Some schools can be funny on this, but others now ask for either QTS or QTLS on their application forms, but crucially it can allow you to continue to teach and if you get a long-term or permanent role to do an induction in one term in theory in one term (due to previous experience) at your pay scale if you and the school so wish.
     
  9. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter

    Thanks a lot for telling me about this

    I've tried to do some research online to see how the QTLS course works etc.

    All I know is that it last around 6 months and I need to complete online workbooks.

    But what I want to know is that l, do I need to be employed in a school to complete the course? Or can I get a voluntary Placement at a local school? If so then how many days a week do I need to be teaching?

    Sorry for all the questions I'm just really interested in taking this step now but need to know the above

    Many thanks
     
  10. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    No you do not, you can provide evidence that you work in schools in your statement, but you do not need to on placement or directly employed by a school, unless they have changed the rules, which I have not heard off. QTLS was designed to give FE teacher with a Pgce equal status to school teachers with QTS, because despite the training be basically the same, they were often seen as being of lesser status. Many colleges now prefer teachers with QTLS because it is a sign of professional status.

    I have for example, done a Pgce in FE (key skills) and a Pgce in secondary education, and have both QTS and QTLS, and I have found that teaching maths or English for example is basically the same in FE, secondary and to some extent primary in that the topics are the same to a great extent. It just requires a different teaching approach, according to thge class being taught, this is the same if like me you are secondary trained as well and you are required to work in a primary school.
     
  11. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter

    I rang them up today and they said I do need to be teaching at least 2 hoursa week to do the course. They said I could ask local school for a placement of 1 day a week for 5 months and the Head of department to mentor/support me for my observations

    Doesn't sound too bad 2 hours a week but now my only worry is, will any schools even want to take me on for 2 hours a week? I will need to email them and ask if they can support me and allow me to teach 2 GCSE classes a week for my QTLS course.

    How hard or easy do you think they will take me on?
    I remember before doing my PGCE how hard it was to get schools to respond to my emails and take me on for some voluntary work!!

    Really stressed now!
     
  12. historygrump

    historygrump Lead commenter Forum guide

    israhafeez

    If you are teaching or working as a CS on supply, that could count as your 2 hours, because you are in front of a class, but you could ask a local school can you volunteer your services for half a day a week due to the course, they do not say it as to be gcse or secondary, you could look a primary for example, where they always like volunteers, First thing is look at about starting the course and worry about the rest later, otherwise you will go bonkers worrying.
     
  13. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter


    Hey

    You sure about the supply teaching of one day a week? Because I will need a mentor from the school to support me and I won't be able to get that if it's just Cover Supervisor work

    I'm just worried if I start the course and then can't get any school to support me!
    I hope I can get a placement though
     
  14. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    When I was on supply I also used to worry that I might not get another permanent position again (although the irony of that was I was on supply because I thought I didn't want another permanent position).

    I think if you want to get your induction done then you need to get one or two longer term positions under your belt. It will be difficult to get another job if you stay on day-to-day for a long time.
     
  15. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter


    The thing is I can't do a full time job at the moment because of some personal issues. This is why I thought I'd just do a QTLS so I dont ever have to worry about doing the rest of my NQT year

    Can I do this course with just working as supply one day a week? How do I get a supporter/mentor?
     
  16. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    It's impossible to do it day to day unless you are at the same school all the time.
     
  17. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter

    Yeah thats what I thought.

    How easy/hard do you think it will be for a school to give me a 1 day placement a week to teach 2 GCSE classes and to be mentored by a member of staff?
    Will they consider supporting me as I am already a qualified teacher? What benefit will it bring for them? (so I can convince them to take me on!)
     
  18. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    No school will go for that. It's ridiculous. Sorry to be blunt but I cannot put into words everything wrong with that suggestion.

    What's the point of gaining QTLS - the 'Qualified' part is not an issue because you already have QTS - the issue you have is with completing induction within the time frame, but the whole point of induction is that you spend a year as an NQT with the reduced timetable, ongoing support, and training opportunities that induction entails. If you don't complete induction you will not have the required experience to be thrown straight into the role of a second year (NQT+1) teacher; schools may see you as risky, they will not be as forgiving towards any rookie mistakes, and they will expect you to just get on with the job and know what you're doing.

    If you were making the move from FE to secondary, and that was the reason for you completing QTLS, and you already had teaching experience, then it would be a different matter.

    I think you need to calm down. It's too soon to worry about not completing induction within the 5 year timescale. Besides, you can still work after the 5 years as long as the work is counting towards induction (i.e. day to day supply is not allowed, but long term supply of at least a term is allowed). (You could still work as a cover supervisor on day to day supply, by the way).

    You have completed the PGCE and got QTS, and you've completed 1 term of induction. I'm sure that within the next three years you'll be able to get the remaining couple of terms signed off, even if you achieve that through fixed term contracts or long term supply, rather than a permanent role.

    Try to keep up to date with what's happening in your subject, and if you are able to then do some volunteering or supply work (doesn't have to be full time), or something involving working with young people, so you can stay in the loop and have things to write about in applications and discuss at interview.

    Perhaps you need to look at fixed term roles (maternity cover, etc.) rather than permanent roles. You'll have a better chance obtaining a job if it's a less desirable role, such as a maternity cover starting at an odd date, because there'll be less competition, and the school won't be able to be so picky (no offence!).
     
    pepper5 likes this.
  19. israhafeez

    israhafeez New commenter

    Hi

    Thank you ever so much for taking your time to give such a detailed answer.

    You are right I do need to calm down I guess, but I just thought it might be too difficult to even get short term contracts (maternity etc) if I take a year out from teaching because of the personal issues I am facing.
    For example, if I can't work this whole academic year, even not day to day supply then schools will question my lack of experience and then won't even consider me over their other candidate for the job.

    If i cant work in schools this academic year then will it be good to put on my CV that I gave private tuition to some local kids? Because at the moment that's the best I can do

    Also you say I can still do day to day cover supervisor work after 5 years but will that be paid at the low rate rather than the teachers rate? (Not sure if you're aware but when qualified teachers go for day to day CS jobs they get paid "teachers" rates of £100-120 and if you are not a qualified teacher then you are paid at CS rate of £60-70)

    What does this rule actually mean then of not being able to do supply work after 5 years? What sort of supply work?

    Really appreciate your response
     
  20. blueskydreaming

    blueskydreaming Lead commenter

    Let's say you have 1 year with no time spent in a school - it's true that you might struggle to get a permanent role, but you might have more luck with a fixed term role such as a maternity cover (as I said above). But even if you can't get a permanent/semi-permanent role there's always supply work to get you back in the classroom. How busy supply work is depends on where you are in the UK, and supply agencies don't care about your experience, they are a business who will send you to a school to make money for them - as long as you have QTS and a DBS check you'll be able to get some supply work. Then, once you have supply work on your CV that can lead to a permanent role, either through gaining experience that makes you attractive (supply work shows that you are flexible and resilient), or through making contacts in schools.

    Do not lie on your CV if it's not true that you did tutoring. You have to be honest about your reasons for taking a break from teaching. Explain your situation briefly, for example 'I took a year out to care for a sick family member'. It is not uncommon for people to take time out - think of women who decide to become stay at home mothers, they might end up with a gap of 6 or more years. Your reasons are obviously valid, and you don't need to go into detail, but any reasonable employer will understand that sometimes life gets in the way.

    Can I just point out that last year I started my NQT year, but it went badly and I ended up resigning in order to save myself. Even though they told me they were going to fail me if I stayed, they still wanted me to work until a stupid date (not the normal leaving date). I agreed because I needed the money, then I thought 'Oh no, this will look dodgy on my CV, I'll never get another job'. Well, I actually got a job within a couple of weeks of leaving - it's a maternity cover role, and I applied because I thought that leaving the NQT year makes me look bad, as does having an odd leaving date, so no school will want me for a permanent role. So you too will probably have to compromise, but in the long run you'll have induction completed, and experience on you CV.

    Worst case scenario, five years after completing the PGCE you're still doing day to day supply, as I said you can still do cover supervisor work even if you're not allowed to work as a teacher. But the agency can call a teaching role a 'cover supervisor' role instead, and that's their way around this problem - same job, different name, problem solved. It's up to the agency how much they pay you for this, but you never lose your qualification (your QTS), so you'll still be a qualified teacher. It's only roles with the title of 'teacher' that you won't be allowed to do; if the role has a different title, but still involves teaching, then you can still do it.

    But as I said above, you can still do supply work in the role of a teacher after the 5 years, as long as it counts towards induction, i.e. as long as the role will last at least a term.
     
    pepper5 likes this.

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