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Can you get a job over 50?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by dunnocks, May 29, 2018.

  1. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    by "pulled the same stunt" do you mean gave an account of his own experience which is at odds with the agenda you are determined to broadcast, whether or not it tallies with the situation on the ground or not??

    you sound so so bravely determined to find a job, and so unfairly thwarted, until people realise you are looking for only a part time SMT job a stone's thow from your home, - people who want jobs are more flexible than that.
     
  2. slick

    slick New commenter

    Catbefriender: I am offended and appalled. On here, we have honest discussion with integrity, not an opportunity to breed distrust. We did have a vacancy for PE, and took a time to replace the colleague and we did eventually. I am still waiting for private messages for geography teachers.....
     
  3. slick

    slick New commenter

    and I organise timetabling in school, and can honestly say that we have not had a single applicant ….. if we had, we would have interviewed.
     
  4. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    @catbefriender A couple of weeks ago, as an experiment, I and two ex-colleagues applied for science jobs advertised near us, which had the 'quick apply' function., when this question of so many science vacancies going unfilled was under discussion. To date, we have heard nothing of any of these applications.

    If there really is this desperate shortage of science teachers, what would it cost a school to respond to an email?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
    woollani likes this.
  5. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Presumably, as you deigned to interview this person, he/she was a qualified teacher, with the appropriate qualifications. So I think we would all like to know why you decided that it was better to leave your students without a teacher. Did they have the temerity to expect a decent salary, and a reasonable workload?
     
    woollani and catbefriender like this.
  6. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    @slick, @dunnocks & @peakster. I am looking at F/T jobs within, say, an hour's commute of Uxbridge, and I have been doing so for the past six years! I admit that my job search is not as diligent now as it was in the first two, or three, years. Nearly all my applications went unanswered. On the few occasions when I was invited to interview, I was either offered the job on a 'voluntary basis', or asked whether I would consider doing so, or offered the job on CS rates, or asked whether I would consider doing so..
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  7. thin_ice

    thin_ice Occasional commenter

    Well said.

    @catbefriender is a tedious, one eyed poster. The sort of older teacher that I hope I never become.

    He/ she is out of date with terminology and this is the sort of thing that annoys the younger ones in school. The advice that @catbefriender has given is dangerously flawed. For example, telling a poster asking for training advice to look for ‘ NTCL’ courses or things run by the DOE.

    The National Teaching College Leadership (as it was never called... get the basics right) doesn’t exist any more and it’s the DfE not DoE.
    Might seem pedantic but this is the sort of thing that makes you look well past your sell-by date.
    As a new contributor my earlier post about this didn’t get through moderation.
    I hope this one does because you can’t let complete nonsense dominate a thread without being challenged.

    You need to see how few posters actually put anything on this dull, repetitive thread. It shows how little interest there is in another whinging, badly informed lightweight troll.
     
  8. thin_ice

    thin_ice Occasional commenter

    No. They were unsuitable.
    Your constant strop is childish.
     
    monicabilongame likes this.
  9. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    @slick I am EXTREMELY offended and appalled that @dunnocks, @peakster and yourself are CONSTANTLY claiming there are LOADS AND LOADS OF jobs out there, when LOADS AND LOADS of teachers on this very website, some of whom are extremely distressed, are telling you that they are finding it difficult to get a job and you all have TOTALLY ZERO sympathy for them.

    TES used to have an Unemployed Teachers Forum and what were we talking about? Difficulty in getting jobs.

    Do you have any idea what this is doing psychologically to uninformed teachers that still believe in the myth of the teaching recruitment crisis? Who are going into the Jobcentre once a fortnight to have some jobsworth telling them, 'How come you can't get a job when there are SO MANY VACANCIES?' and being threatened with sanctions i.e GETTING NO MONEY FOR SIX WEEKS because they are deemed not trying HARD ENOUGH to get work. Or those doing the ODD DAYS supply, which messes up their benefits for weeks on end?

    Who spend HOURS AND HOURS reading BORING AS HELL school
    websites
    Oftsed reports
    HTs visions of the school and
    visiting the said school

    And then spending around FOUR TO FIVE hours typing out job specific applications and typing in responses whilst the antiquated Word 1800 BC doc is making the application form jump around and around and having to reformat it for EVERY answer, BEFORE sending it in by the deadline and getting

    NO RESPONSE and
    NO FEEDBACK

    And you are appalled? Well at least you are in work and getting a pension and on the teaching gravy train.

    I feel for those teachers of the 335,000 qualified teachers out of work who really want to work and unlike me are still trying and trying because THEY DO EXIST even though you ALL want to deny their existence.

    Your denial of their existence does not mean they do not exist. I have provided links to @alisonhank in a previous post.

    I feel for those of the 100,000 NQT who have NEVER completed Induction and want to work.

    And I TOO am APPALLED and OFFENDED that in this so called CARING PROFESSION we have so many totally insensitive TEACHERS putting down others and making them feel stupid and small for trying to get a job in a profession they love. Who want to make a positive contribution to the lives of young people and who are denied this, for a decent salary.

    We know about teachers who fall into deep depressions because they feel they are worthless. Some have even contemplated suicide. Why, because they believe they are COMPLETE FAILURES when indeed they are AWESOME and worthy people who have been cast aside because of their age and simply because they cost more and replaced by younger and in many cases UNQUALIFIED teachers.

    The irony of, we can't employ you older teachers because they haven't been in school for 5 to 10 years and we haven't in been schools for 5 to 10 years because we were over 45, 5 to 10 years ago.

    And to once again have the honour of working in a school, one should consider doing it for free or at a much lower rate than their worth and refusal to do this, make one seem unprofessional and uncaring.

    All those NTCL incentives, PAYING schools £5,000 to take on Returners failing. Why? Because the schools HAD TO COMMIT to taking on the Returners when they just wanted the cash but not the older teachers.

    In some of my local schools we have had older teachers (OTs) working as TAs and being directed by NQTs, TAs, CSs etc. old enough to be their grandchildren and unsurprisingly, the situation was unsustainable especially when SMT expected the OTs to help out in the Induction.

    If a teacher can not get a job on this website and expresses it, they are called as stupid and liars. How offensive and appalling is that?

    What support have any of you given to those teachers who want to return to the profession?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  10. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    What nonsense are YOU talking about? There is the NTCL Return to Teaching Team which is STILL up and running and which you of course know nothing about because you and your sort aren't interested in taking on returners. Just goes to show how UN up to date and uninformed you are. When you are part of the programme, which I was for over a year, the emails you get and the link at the bottom of the email says, NTCL Return to Teaching Team and the programmes and CPD states the SAME. Here is what it says, barring of course the name, email and telephone number

    Return to Teaching Advisor
    Return to Teaching Programme
    Department for Education (DfE) / National College of Teaching and Leadership (NCTL)


    And we call it the NTCL Return to Teaching Programme for short.

    You obviously don't know about it, because you are not a returner and have never had or never want to have dealing with anyone who is. And let me assure, some of the teachers I met on the programme were BLOOMING AWESOME.

    And be very, very careful about tempting fate i.e. not wanting to be an older teacher. There is only one alternative to becoming older and it aint nice.
     
    agathamorse, woollani and MarieAnn18 like this.
  11. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    As much as I would LOVE to continue responding to the insults I am receiving, I have a lot of gardening to do. I am an avid gardener and last year I had a project called 'Project Prop' which was a MAJOR plant propagation project and I now have LOADS and LOADS of plants generated from the existing plants I had in my garden and am propagating even more and planting out last year's, so that my outdoors will be BLOOMING marvellous.

    So please continue to send the insults in whilst I work in the garden and rest assured, my lack of response for hours will not be because I am overwhelmed by your insults, but because I am so busy making my garden even more beautiful.

    I also have a major renovation to do in my home. My bedroom also acts as a office and I am going to create a divider wall - all by myself! Riveting stuff because the future for employment for OTs is self employment and the MONEY that is out there, working freelance is wonderful and the opportunities abound such as online tutoring.

    So making an efficient and attractive online working area is a MUST.

    And I am NOW earning as much as I would do working part time in a school as a class teacher, which is all I ever wanted to do in a school (i.e. PT work) and now have the ambition to earn the equivalent of a full time teacher's salary, without working full time in teaching hours and the overtime.

    I no longer want to return to classroom teaching. It isn't worth it.

    OTs have so many skills amassed over the years and we are so employable when we get out of the negative mindsets imposed on us by others, learn new skills, like I did on the NTCL Return to Teaching Programme and get out there and start using them.

    What I have started, am extremely excited about and am continuing i.e. my portfolio of careers which includes income from tutoring and other developing employment streams which I intend to last me well into retirement. I'm now thinking of retiring at around 72. I am just to awesome to stop when I get my state pension. :)

    It's absolutely amazing how wonderful you feel once you give up on trying to return to classroom teaching. The only comparison I can find to trying to get a job over 50 as a classroom teacher is like trying to seduce a gay guy, but I reckon if I did try to seduce a gay guy, he would tell me, 'Sorry Cat, you just aint got what I want.' And when I ask, 'What's that, Love?' He would explain and I would totally understand, unlike schools which give ZERO FEEDBACK.:cool:
     
  12. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    I am just going by my own experience, and that of those I know personally, who are in the same boat as me. There seems to be a fundamental disparity between the schools that cannot find science teachers, and the science teachers who cannot find jobs. To reconcile this there must be some mechanism at work, be it cost, ageism, or whatever. I tend toward both, as even when put forward for a job by an agency, working at a flat, daily rate, older, more experienced teachers are continually passed over.

    If my skills were in demand, why would schools expect me to give them away for free, or why would they baulk at paying little more than minimum wage? I am still waiting to hear from the 'return to teaching' course for which I applied a couple of weeks ago. I suppose it will go the same way as the one for which I applied last year.
     
  13. cys2017

    cys2017 Occasional commenter

    Wow I’m 23 I didn’t even realise they discrinated age wise in teaching settings
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  14. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I've never seen it or experienced it
     
    thin_ice, border_walker and cys2017 like this.
  15. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I resigned from a job I was unhappy in 4 years ago, without a job to go to.

    I was employed on a temporary contract by the next working day.

    I was very happy there and my contract was renewed twice, then I was told the job no longer existed.

    I was employed again by the next working day.

    I was not happy in this job and resigned after a few months.

    I was employed again by the next working day.

    I am happy in my current job and intend to stay.

    I am over 50 in London.

    I am a lot more flexible than @catbefriender though, prepared to travel, work full time, take jobs at different levels.
     
    thin_ice likes this.
  16. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    If you want to know why we didn't appoint the person who came for interview last week I'll tell you.

    He couldn't teach.

    Need to know any more.
     
  17. thin_ice

    thin_ice Occasional commenter

    Typical. You can give it out but can’t take it.
    I’ve seen a lot of polite and patient replies to your posts. Your response is usually long, meandering, mistake filled waffle full of capital letters and bold font. Even in your last reply to me you make the same errors.

    Not a very good advert for tutoring - online or not.

    Good luck being TOO AWESOME.
     
    drvs likes this.
  18. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    All of the above applies to me. I am now 62 but I was only 56 when I started looking for jobs. Nobody will consider me unless I work for peanuts, or for free.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  19. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    @dunnocks you CONSTANTLY refuse to acknowledge with me there are several factors at play
    a. I am over 50
    b. I have A DISABILITY which impacts the amount of work I can do and
    c. I am female.

    I am aware that employment for females over 50s is more challenging and my research shows that the majority of women over 50 in work are self employed and a higher number of female OTs are unemployed than men. Adding having a disability too it, makes it more challenging.

    But I love a challenge!

    However, despite ALL these obstacles I am thriving in my self employment having steadily increased my income over the years due to retraining as a Maths teacher on the NTCL Return to Teaching Programme. I went for my PIP assessment recently, as I have been moved from DLA to PIP and was amazed that the assessor told me, as others have, that they admire my confidence and resilience and that there are others, who are worst off than me (disability wise), who want to stay at home at feel sorry for themselves.

    PIP is assessed on your WORST day and I was really weak during my assessment, but still managed to get compliments so you can imagine what a dynamo I am on my good days. Now, when I was stupid enough to believe in the myth of no teachers in London that was stated all over the place, I felt so stupid because I could not get anywhere. And this was at a time when there was an idiotic scheme whereby ANYBODY that employed me would get £7,000 tax free over two years. I fought and fought the DWP to get me off the scheme because I simply felt it was an insult to have employers PAID to take disabled qualified staff on. This was during the Guaranteed Interview Scheme period and I had many interviews where I was the ONLY person over 25, because they were more LEA schools and I was insulted with what a total waste of time it was having to interview me, because they had to. When I tried to interject, I was spoken over e.g.
    'To think we could be interviewing someone more worthwhile right now but we have had to interview you, because of the silly guaranteed interview scheme....'
    'But...'
    Raising their voice, 'Please don't interrupt me! I have a disabled teacher off with Bipolar disorder who has been off for six months. This is the cost of employing disabled teachers......'
    After letting him, let off steam I was then able to say thing like, I bet she didn't disclose her disability did she? Good on her and I hope she gets to do another 6 months and gets an SA! And then telling them about this ridiculous scheme whereby anybody foolish enough to employ me could get £7,000 tax free from the DWP. And I got,
    'Oh Cat, could we PLEASE start again?'
    I bemused, 'But you've just told me that employing disabled people is a waste of time.'
    And then, 'Why didn't you mention you came with this funding?' I answered,
    'Where on the teaching application form does it ask, if we employed you, would be get paid by the DWP £7,000 TAX FREE?'

    Too many schools are unaware of the funding that exists when taking on disabled staff and one HT had the audacity to encourage me to attend a HTs's conference to explain it. I said, 'But then schools would be employing disabled teachers for all the wrong reasons.'

    As mentioned above, I was depressed because I thought there were a lot of jobs and my failure to get one, was down to me.

    Luckily there was an amazing bloke on the TES Unemployed Teachers Forum who did a lot of work hassling the then DoE, now the DfE, about the number of teachers unemployed, out of schools and looking for work. This is where I LEARNT that the MASSIVE TEACHING SHORTAGE was all in the minds of those in the DfE who wanted more and more funding and that there were over 300,000 at that time, qualified teachers OUT OF SCHOOLS.

    I also did research into the number of NQTs leaving ITT and NOT starting Induction within the 1st year of gaining QTS through my MP and the NUT (as it was called at the time). The number went up by 12% in 2011, the last year it was recorded.

    Also the last year the number of teachers with QTS out of schools and NQTs not completing Induction were recorded was 2016. The DfE have now decided not to record/publish them anymore. I wonder why?

    I am proud of my achievements and I am constantly working my best to be productive member of a society that does not value its children well enough to give dedicated teachers like me and other OTs a chance to give back. Luckily, I am still working in schools, doing Intervention work, through agencies, paid for by the LEA and meeting with a lot of wonderful and truly AWESOME younger teachers, many of whom wish MORE teachers like me were in their schools because we are fun to be around.

    My disability precludes me working full time as a classroom teacher, but there are other OTs where this isn't a problem, and unfortunately, they still are struggling.

    I care about all teachers, young and old and I am appalled at the insults that are levelled against my friends who are highly capable, committed teachers. Their only problem is that they will not give up the dream of returning to classroom teaching , despite my best efforts to encourage them otherwise. However, since they are so AWESOME and committed, I will continue to expound their

    AWESOMENESS and the fact that they are worthy of ONLY the very, very best

    The fact some of them have been out of work for a while, does not mean they have lost all their skills. With their confidence and with people believing in in them, they could move mountains.

    Fortunately, I do not look to people that insult me to provide me with an idea of how I am to think of myself. I am far too aware to do that.

    @dunnocks you talk about getting a job the following day. As I have mentioned before

    OTs couldn't get jobs because they have not been in schools for a while, and they haven't been in school for a while because they were OTs i.e. over 45 when they lost their jobs. So there are excuses.

    Rather than HELPING others, you prefer to feel superior and expound how brilliant you are and refuse to acknowledge there are teachers as good as, or even BETTER than you are, who can not get work because they do not have an up to date teaching reference.

    Ghandi, as an older teen, saw an Englishman verbally and racially abuse an Indian in South Africa and remarked that that was when he learnt and felt ashamed at how some people gain a sense of superiority and self worth by putting down others.

    I don't.

    I have also learnt that one must NEVER feel upset by insults UNLESS they come from people they truly admire and respect.;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  20. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    I am also over 50, female and have disabilities. There is absolutely nothing special about me. But schools are prepared to fight for me. Last year I had a choice of 2 schools, both offering immediate contracts, when I picked this one

    I've listened to you and read your posts, I can see absolutely nothing of the problems you describe in my own experience or in the lives of others around me.

    On the contrary, I am used working in understaffed departments, because schools I have worked in have found it impossible to recruit.

    My current department was fully staffed for the first 6 weeks of the year, and then not again until 2 weeks ago. During which time we advertised repeatedly and got no qualified applicants.

    The department next door, also a core subject, has not been fully staffed all year, and has also advertised repeatedly. They have just employed a woman of about 60, who resigned from her previous job and left at half term
     

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