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Can you get a job over 50?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by dunnocks, May 29, 2018.

  1. bevdex

    bevdex Star commenter

    The only thing I know for sure is that if they expect us still to be doing wake up shake up at the age of 66, we'll need a bulk order of tena products from Boots.
    Mrsmumbles, lulu57, yodaami2 and 4 others like this.
  2. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    @bevdex Funnily enough, when the DWP issued guidance for employers wishing to employ the over 50s, more toilets, less need for movement around the workplace and flexible working hours was recommended.

    As I have stated before, adapting the workplace to the needs of the over 50s would benefit everyone. More loos around schools would be in everyone's interest.
    Jamvic, Marisha and agathamorse like this.
  3. R13

    R13 New commenter

    Recruitment in some spheres and some areas is such that I can not envisage being in a position where I have enough of the upper-hand in a negotiation to turn down any first rate applicant
  4. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    But, you are probably thinking about what's best for the students. The truth, that most people seem unable to accept, is that most SLT don't give a damn about the students. As long as they can get someone cheap and subservient they won't lose a minutes sleep about how well those entrusted to them are learning.
  5. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    Spot on, @David Getling! Many schools are run to perpetuate their managements, having a teaching staff and students is incidental. Otherwise why would an SMT allow students to be 'taught' by a succession on unqualified people, with only a GCSE pass in the subjects they are supposedly teaching?
    Jamvic, agathamorse and catbefriender like this.
  6. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Some HoDs have ONLY a GCSE in the subject the are HoD of and have NO intention whatsoever to study beyond it and bully teachers with A levels, Degrees, Postgraduate Degrees, and PGCEs out of their departments and replace them with more like them, with the 'Can do attitude.'

    I mean if the HoD of Maths has only a GCSE in Maths, what does the Deputy HoD have to have? An 11 plus pass?:confused:
    MarieAnn18 and nervousned like this.
  7. nervousned

    nervousned Senior commenter

    I was replaced as HoD of Maths in one school by someone with only GCSE Maths. I hadn't wanted to hire them as a teacher due to poor subject knowledge but was overruled. I saw one of the Further Maths students shortly after I left.

    "Sir, he doesn't know anything."
  8. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Unfortunately, this is what is being served perpetually to a lot of children in the poorer boroughs today. I tutor in 2 boroughs, one doing well educationally and economically, the other not. You can guess which borough had the most number of students deciding they didn't want to continue tutoring sessions and their parents cancelling not due to funds, but due to their child's whims? And the thing is, they are so behind that you can ONLY work these kids towards a basic pass, and when they are getting near there and they are told, they are doing 'outstandingly' by their 'teachers' which generates delusions of grandeur as to their abilities and then they decide they don't need any more tutoring, because they are too smart and fall far short of a Grade 4 and fail because they are not taught by

    a. qualified teachers and
    b. if they are, they are taught by teachers not qualified in the subject or
    c. teachers not bothering to do the donkey work and get their pedagogy and subject specialist knowledge to a standard to enable Grade 9 passes from their students.

    And in the better borough, the students, working towards 7/8 are trying to get 9s.

    Bad teaching has a lasting effect on children's

    a. learning
    b. attainment and
    c. attitudes to learning and the learned.

    How can any society that says it cares for children, allow this?
    agathamorse likes this.
  9. tonymars

    tonymars Occasional commenter

    Nervousned this is appalling. Can it be shouted from the roof tops?
    catbefriender likes this.
  10. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    If you were to live in my borough you'd have perpetual laryngitis. It's the norm. CSs, TAs, UTs doing the bulk of the teaching, young teachers 2 or 3 years pass their NQT years working as HoDs/HoYs and QTs 30-40 being the teachers nearing breakdowns because they are fully aware of the long term consequences, soon to be replaced by another NQT and not an over 50s teacher in sight.:oops:
  11. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    Seven years ago, when I was still teaching in school, out of twelve teachers in the science department, only three od use had degrees in science subjects, PGCES, and experience of teaching science. Of the rest, a couple had degrees in vaguely science subjects, but not previous teaching experience, while the rump were teachers deployed form other subjects and those nothing, as far as I could see. We three 'proper' science teachers spent time we could ill-afford teaching these 'teachers' what to teach, as well as how to teach it!

    Increasingly, HoD roles are becoming managerial posts, filled by non-teachers, or abolished, as they were in my last school, to be replaced by a DoS. Our DoS for maths a science, in the distant past, had been a sociology teacher.
  12. David Getling

    David Getling Lead commenter

    Sadly, for the kids, I can confirm that this kind of behaviour is rife in schools. I often warn my students that their teachers cannot be trusted to give them problems that really challenge them. The result is that many get the shock of their life when they first confront such problems in their A-level exam. But by then they are no longer the teacher's concern.
    Even when a teacher does set a hard question, most seem totally unwilling (or unable) to go through it in class, even if virtually all their students were unable to do it. When I was in the classroom I'd always endeavor to set homework that was a mixture of easy, moderate and very hard problems. I'd only expect one or two students to manage the very hard ones and would always spend the time going through them for the whole class, because it's often the case that students learn the most from such problems.
  13. nervousned

    nervousned Senior commenter

    If I didn't know you lived in London I would have thought you used to work in one of my old places. I remember our sociology Head of Science told the teachers to stop teaching topics in A level that the students didn't do well on in tests.
    agathamorse and Periwinkle like this.
  14. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    That is the same sort of thing that we had. Whatever our problems were, that was the answer: stop. Resources for a subject are expensive? Stop teaching it. The chemicals and equipment for a module are expensive? Stop teaching it. When we explained that the subject was part of the exam, you can guess what answer we got!
    agathamorse likes this.
  15. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    What is spooky :eek: is that you and I are aware of a HoD of Maths with a GCSE in Maths only, and I am and I am in Inner London. And also you and Roger are aware of a HoD of Science, with a Sociology degree and he is in London.

    It would also be interesting to know their ages, their specialist degree and their PGCE subjects. The HoD of Maths I am aware of is still under 30.

    Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many HoDs in London, UK etc. are in charge of an Ebacc subject departments with only a Level 2 qualification? I am aware of some Maths teachers who started off with only a GCSE and have worked their socks off, starting teaching KS3 only and gaining qualifications along the way. I know one who did the full Open University Degree part time! I would have thought that if you were a HoD, you would feel the need to prove yourself.
    agathamorse likes this.
  16. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Star commenter

    Not spooky, just commonplace! :(. Far from trying to gain extra qualifications to fit them to teach the subject, they see the HoD role as one of management, not one of leadership by example. The DoS of maths and science, whom I described earlier, had no teaching timetable.

    Of course, SMTs would claim that using unqualified staff was forced upon them by the shortage of qualified teachers!:mad:
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
    agathamorse and catbefriender like this.
  17. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    The classic A level Maths book scenario is to have easy examples and then provide problems much harder than the examples and provide the answers at the back with absolutely no idea as to how it has been achieved. :oops:

    This is why we have such Big problems with Maths education, and this is where proper Maths teachers with the subject specific knowledge and pedagogical insights are desperately needed not only to teach students but to teach the teachers.

    On a recent CPD, I was discussing with a Maths teacher that I knew so many Maths teachers with a degree and PGCE in Maths who did not want to teach A level Maths. She told me that the problem was, you start to teach it, they don't understand and then you don't know how to explain it another way and everyone gets annoyed.

    With Maths, I always attempt to teach complex topics in different ways and always attempt to challenge even my weakness students and encourage my students to learn different strategies to solve problems. Only having one fixed and rigid way that works for you, and being unable to alter or differentiate it, creates many problems for students who do not think like you do.
  18. yodaami2

    yodaami2 Lead commenter

    We got our most recent teachers through an agency. This is all they submitted on behalf of the applicants for all applications. CV and short paragraph of suitability. It was good enough to shortlist from and indeed appoint. If agencies can do this why can’t individuals? It’s mad really. I write references often multiple for some individuals , the letter is the same for all but the pro formas are ALL different! Annoying much!
    agathamorse likes this.
  19. yodaami2

    yodaami2 Lead commenter

    Just loved how you wrote this!
  20. armandine2

    armandine2 Established commenter

    Not sure I quite agree with this - the initial example is a simple one, then you almost invariably don't find the next simplest extension to it. But that is not because the extension is thought to be hard rather it is thought too easy - e.g some calculus: I was scanning last night for an author who had started or included some thing like find d/dx (2sinx) rather than the find d/dx (sinx). I guess this is just pressure on space.

    I was working through what I thought was going to be a tough A Level question last night (cardioid area - in polar coordinates) from the 1980s - in reality it was a lengthy series of easy questions wrapped up in something unfamiliar, one formula to remember, and some writing skill to manage not to get bogged down in terms.


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