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Can you get a job over 50?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by dunnocks, May 29, 2018.

  1. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    Each county tends to have their own form in my experience.

    ..and they are not all the same.
     
  2. nervousned

    nervousned Established commenter

    Not in mine. Every school I have ever applied to had its own form.
     
  3. catbefriender

    catbefriender Senior commenter

    Exactly. You have two options, trying to fill it out in the actual antiquated Word format and every insert you put in, sends the whole format flying around or converting it to PDF and then having to cut and paste bits into it and then re-edit it again and again.

    In this day and age, schools should invest in an electronic form whereby you can just paste in the bits needed. Too much time is wasted formatting these documents and then NO response.
     
  4. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Lead commenter

    I know what you mean, @catbefriender. Some of the Word format application forms drive you crackers. Some the electronic online ones are not much better. Having boxes that will not expand enough to take the information you are inputting, is a common problem, as @nervousned said. Some have character limits, so you have to leave out half your address, just to fit it in.
     
    nervousned and catbefriender like this.
  5. peakster

    peakster Star commenter

    I always download it and then fill the form in by hand.

    Then send in a typed letter of application.

    It is actually quicker
     
    Lara mfl 05 and install like this.
  6. davidkirby007

    davidkirby007 New commenter

    Agreed even with good computing skills the much varied forms are time consuming to fill in! It is also a shame that schools do not even send out even a short email when you have not been shortlisted too. Sadly at 52 and even with 20+ excellent DT and Computing teaching experience. In my experience, I suspect many schools are only looking for NQTs and younger staff.
     
  7. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Lead commenter

    A sad indictment of the abilities of some schools to handle electronic communications effectively. :(
     
    nervousned and catbefriender like this.
  8. PeterQuint

    PeterQuint Lead commenter

    Wouldn’t it be much easier if there were a centralised system?
     
    palmtree100 likes this.
  9. David Getling

    David Getling Senior commenter

    Peter, I've been saying this for years. As in America, and elsewhere, we need the equivalent of a school board that does all the recruiting. All hiring and firing power should be completely removed from SLT. This would go a hell of a long way to making use of those over 50 who want to teach, and vastly reduce the obscene abuse of capability, and ability of SLT to bully those who do the real work.
     
  10. topquark

    topquark New commenter

    Going back to the original topic of the thread, I can’t understand how we have arrived at the grim reality that teachers over 40 years of age start to worry about their longevity in this career. Even worse, the teachers’ anxiety about this issue tends to start at an even earlier age. How can this situation have evolved? How has the control over our careers slipped through our fingers?
    -Buffon, Sheringham are able to play top level football well into their 40s
    - Sir Alex Ferguson was still managing into his 70s
    - studies show that surgeons have a greater level of success if they are middle aged
    - Manuel de Oliveira directed movies until he was 103 years old and Clint Eastwood is 88
    - Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad is the new prime minister elect of Malaysia and he’s 92
    - Teresa May is 61 (Ok, I know)
    - teachers are respected the most in China, Greece, Turkey, South Korea and these countries have large numbers of middle aged teachers

    How can I (with my advanced years) not be entrusted to explain Kirchhoff’s Laws to a bunch of teenagers without living under the threat of formal capability?
     
  11. catbefriender

    catbefriender Senior commenter

    @topquark simply because there are TOO MANY TEACHER and more are being trained and shipped in from overseas as we speak.
     
    Mrsmumbles likes this.
  12. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    Young NQTs don't have families and are usually prepared to throw themselves 100% into the job for a few years, doing whatever is asked of them to make a success of their career. I'm guessing here at SLT logic. They certainly seem to prefer NQTS. I guess money is also a factor. Perceived as having more energy and ideas, being fresh from uni? Of course, older teachers tend to have more experience, subject knowledge and general knowledge. They also spend less time on socialising perhaps and might be more reliable and settled in their life?
     
    Jamvic and Lara mfl 05 like this.
  13. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Lead commenter

    @catbefriender: Exactly! Teacher surplus is the reality while teacher shortage is a myth.

    @palmtree100: A career in teaching, as many SMTs what the job done, is incompatible with family life. From both the teacher's and the manger's viewpoints, money is a crucial consideration, too. Once the teacher gets too expensive, they are 'managed out'. knowing this, and with little pay progression and insane working hours, what incentive is their for teachers to stay in the profession, if they want a home and a family?
     
    agathamorse and install like this.
  14. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    Very little! Unless part time or supply or something.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  15. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Established commenter

    I am not sure I agree with your implication that as NQT's are prepared to throw themselves 100% for the job, that older people are not prepared to give 100%.

    Perhaps what you mean is that NQTs are more likely to put in 30+ hours unpaid ie throw themselves in 180%...

    Whilst older teachers with family and or other commitments just cannot do that and are also old enough to realise they are being taken for a mug and so will just say "sufficient" at some point when marking/prep etc.

    Oh, and don't get this wrong and think that by doing this the older person is being unprofessional quite the contrary, someone doing an insane amount of work for no pay is the very definition of unprofessional.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
    Jamvic, Catgirl1964, Marisha and 4 others like this.
  16. catbefriender

    catbefriender Senior commenter

    The brilliant TPS, the uber long holidays, the pleasure of spending the day enlightening the minds of beautiful young angels, the early departure home before the rush hour traffic, the fascinating intellectual debates in the staff room, the warmth and support of management..........

    This is how it is SOLD.
     
    Jamvic, Mrsmumbles, Marisha and 2 others like this.
  17. palmtree100

    palmtree100 Lead commenter

    I agree
    Also many NQTs quickly realise the loss to their social life and ability to do simple things like go to the gym. So they soon prioritise and cut out the unnecessary work, also takes a while to get used to planning etc and takes hours when you first start.
     
    Jamvic, MarieAnn18 and install like this.
  18. Jolly_Roger15

    Jolly_Roger15 Lead commenter

    @palmtree100 & @catbefriender: Younger teachers without family commitments might have more capacity to work 100+ hours per week for peanuts than older ones with families but not for long. In London, the peanuts part of the equation makes it almost impossible for the former anyway.

    A career in teaching is 'sold' as you describe. Unfortunately, the intelligent, highly motivated people whom the adverts wish to attract do not live in a bubble. They can read forums like this, and listen to the experiences of those doing the job, and decide, "Thanks, but no thanks!"

    Younger teachers trying to cut out the pointless paperwork will soon find themselves in conflict with their SMTs, which might well curtain their careers; voluntarily, or otherwise.
     
  19. topquark

    topquark New commenter

    I agree that the influx of young, highly qualified foreign teachers who enter the profession on the lower end of the pay scale must have a negative impact upon the employability of home grown experienced teachers. Also, in pure numbers, the number of potential teachers being trained may have risen. However, like with many crisis, the causal factors are numerous and multifaceted. Take a look at this article which states that, “The DfE forecasts that secondary school pupil numbers will increase by 540,000 (19.4%) between 2017 and 2025, and that pupil-teacher ratios will continue to rise.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/educati...eaves-english-schools-in-crisis-watchdog-says

    Or this set of data, which contradicts the Government’s stance, “The publication of the research comes a month after the Commons Public Accounts Committee criticised the government's approach to the teacher shortage as "sluggish and incoherent", and it follows alarm at a 29 per cent drop in applications to teacher-training courses.”

    https://www.tes.com/news/extent-trainee-teacher-shortage-laid-bare-dfe-research

    It is simply not true to say that there is a glut of teachers in the UK, in fact, “The target for recruiting computing teachers has been missed by more than 1,000 over a five-year period. There has been a shortfall in physics teachers of almost 1,200, while the target for maths teachers has been missed by 1,850 recruits.”. The shortage is subject specific but nevertheless a proven reality.

    The Government is continually trying to mask the statistics, paint a pretty picture and throw money hand over fist at a recruitment drive, whilst the reality is, “There’s not a penny to spare, and yet 10% of school recruitment budgets are being wasted. Instead of being spent on funding more teachers, this 10% is spent on advertising and then re-advertising positions that go unfilled – a problem so widespread that 79% of schools report recruiting teachers to be a problem.”

    https://talentedteacherjobs.co.uk/2018/04/09/teacher-shortages-and-wasted-recruitment-budgets/

    The Government is going to have to move mountains and make miracles happen overnight to solve this problem if schools persist in bullying experienced practitioners out of this venerable profession. The average age of quitting teaching (and I don’t mean taking early retirement) can only get lower and lower.
     
    dunnocks, MarieAnn18 and install like this.
  20. Mrs-Pip

    Mrs-Pip New commenter

    That's because they haven't been allowed to pay into the teachers pension.
     
    agathamorse and Lara mfl 05 like this.

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