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Can supply teachers claim JSA in the summer hols?

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by jubilee, Jun 7, 2009.

  1. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    When making a claim (whether you have another job lined up or not) do NOT state that you are a supply teacher. You are an unemployed teacher who is prpepared to take temporay and/or part time work whilst looking for permanent f/t work.
    The danger with stating that you are a supply teacher is that they will consider it to be a lifestyle choice and that you aren't really looking for full employment. They then state that the holiday periods are 'customary holidays' and that you knew that supply teachers don't get paid during those periods, so you are not eligible for JSA.
    As an unemployed teacher who takes sporadic work rather than sign on all year, you are entiltled to claim JSA in any periods of unemployment or low employment.
    If working under 16 hours per week, you can keep a JSA claim open. You declare hours worked and JSA continues in full until you are declaring teaching pay when it is received. They then adjust or temporaily cease JSA payments but you keep signing on. You sign off when you exceed 16 hours in YOUR Benefit Week and when abroad and you sign back on when work slows down after your 16hr+ stint.
     
    SarahJayne66 likes this.
  2. Hi, just a quick question - Does that mean that if you base this on school hours of 9am - 3pm - (6 hours a day) That you can claim job seekers allowance if you dont work more than 2 and a half days a week?
     
  3. aysha - The problem you may have is that your benefit week may run Tueday to Tuesday in which case if you work Friday one week and Monday and Tuesday the next week this would count as 18 hours if they were full days.
    I tried signing on in Feb. and it was a nightmare. Instead of filling in the claim form youself you spend 2o minutes on the phone answering questions, 90% of which are irrelevant, i.e. Have yiu served in the armed forces? No. Have you got a pension from the armed forces etc. I was then asked to go into the local office and to go through the form all over again.
    They then ask me to list all the days I'd worked in the past two years. I then had to keep a silly diary about what I was doing to find work etc. After 3 months of jumping through all the hoops I didn't see a penny. I might try again in the Summer holidays and see if I have more luck.
     
  4. I've never had it that badly (but I do keep a fairly detailed diary of where I've been, when and with which agency and tick off when I've been paid anyway) but I do tend to find they hate supply teachers as we require extra forms, which requires walking across the office... they hate when you bring in your form with the hours you've worked... and if you work via different agencies... or do anything requiring them going to use the photocopier... public enemy number 1.
    I hate the JobCentre with a passion - it's like the eptiome of Governmental punishing people for their situation and finding someone who treats you like a human in there can be an impossible task (I've seen security guards snatch the jobs papers off people who were waiting because they wanted them for their coffee break etc).
     
  5. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    Agency paid supply teachers should enter the number of hours they are claiming from their employer. If paid a daily rate. enter the number of hours and minutes you worked (including free lesson time as you're still employed but NOT including the lunch break (that's unpaid for all teachers, agency or LEA).
    LEA supply teachers should again count up the hours they claim for if hourly paid (not the lunch break). Daily paid teachers should look at their contract (or their timesheet) as many LEAs state that the pay is for 5 hours per day and remains the same pay even if you are required to stay longer to do marking etc.
    Based on 5hrs per day or 5 hrs 15, you could keep a claim open with 3 days per week of work.
    satnav's experiencxe sounds extreme.
    I wouldn't mention individual schools when claiming. The person on the phone has to ask what work you have done, which has finished, in the last 12 months. You simply mention that you worked for such and such an LEA or such and such an agency and state when you last worked for them. Strictly speaking, the individual schools are not your employer (certainly not when you are agency employed). They then send a form to the employer asking for verification of your employment status. You really don't want every school you worked at to be getting a form and, as I suspect that many would not complete and return it, that would prevent your claim proceeding to the payment stage (not ineligibility) as they send the form out again when they get no answer!
    You can even say that you are still registered with an agency and hoping for work but that your last day of work was xxxx
     
  6. I was somewhat surprised at how unhelful the staff at the jobcentre were because in the past signing on has not been a problem. The form they gave me about work I'd done in the last 2 years was very specific asking to list term dates and holidays etc yet the space they gave you to answer was the size of a postage stamp. I think I finished up sending it back 3 times because they said I'd not fully answered the questions.
    I assumed that the needed the info so they could calculate if I had made enough contributions so at one point I said surely you must have my contribution record on computer and the person dealing with the claim said he didn't have access to such information which seemed rather stupid. Which seemed to be the question how they could actually check all the info I had sent them was true.
     
  7. Apologies to jubilee, I was only talking about what someone else had told me about signing on at holiday destinations. As seen jubilee provides the best info on these issues. Meant with respect. Only thing I say is a supply teacher should keep a diary of the days they have worked and hours, as that form wanting to know your hours for the last two years is the pits.
    Best stunt a Jobcentre Plus did on me was sent me that form with a different persons name and YI number. Totally out of order and in this era of data fraud, completely against the rules. Thing is the poor person probably another supply would never have known. Also did some unknown person get my Name and NI number?
    bumpf bumpf and more bumpf from the dole! . . . . and in this case way out of order bumpf.
    However hang on in there and get your benefits!
     
  8. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    It's the benefits Agency that check your NI record, solely based on your NI number. they can't do that until your claim has been submitted and the Jobcentre can only access the information after the benefits Agency has worked out whether or not you paid enough NI in the two tax years under scrutiny.
    I suspect that the detailed 2 year employment audit is to establish whether or not you are making a career of being on supply. they'll wnat to establish a pattern of you not working a certain customary holiday times. I'm assuming that you flagged yourslf up as a supply teacher, not just an unemployed teacher.
    The general employment audit is of an applicant's work in the last 12 months. they aske if yoiu had a job that ended in the last 12 months. keep it simple and state the LEA or agency employers that you have worked with in the past 12 months. when asked about your work regime with each employer, state variable hours.
     
  9. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    When making a claim by phone, the advisor asks a load of questions, many of which are irrelevant to most claimants; they used to be on the paper claim forms too and even male applicants had to answer Yes or No to whether they are pregnant!
    One of the questions they ask, which I think is designed to 'hoodwink' the claimant into renouncing benefits, is "Do you ONLY wish to claim NI Credits?"
    Some claimants know that they only qualify for JSA under their NI record and they may weel misunderstand and answer "Yes". They will then not even be assessed for JSA payments and will only get free NI credits to safeguard their eventual state retirement pension. they will still have to attend the jobcentre for an interview and sign on every 2 weeks with a jobsearch record completed and will wonder why they don't get any money. Their travel and parking costs will probably cost more than the value of the NI credit and they may not even need the Credits if they pay enough NI in each tax year from temporary teaching anyway.
    Always answer "No!" to that question and make doubly sure that they record it correctly by adding that you wish to be assessed for JSA payments.
     
  10. Thanks Jubilee - that's really helpful to me too.
    As you're really clued up on this subject would you be able to advise me on something else, please?
    I'm supply but have taken on a bit of a sideline job (self employed) and registered my self with the tax man. If the supply isn't coming in and the 2nd job isn't paying in a particular week, can I claim? I've taken on an accountant to help with my books - its only a very small sideline - but where do I stand? I've heard that I can apply to do my own taxes for all my work but i can't think that that could be right. I'd be grateful if you could help.Thanks.
     
  11. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    Sorry, but this is an area I know little about.
    It would be worth you making a claim as a tester in a period when you have no teaching work and no income from your self employment.
    I think the issue might be over whether or not you pay a self-employed stamp. Self employed workers have less access to certain benefits.
    I have (on only one occasion) received payment for a short article I wrote for a newspaper and I declared the money on my tax return without having to pay self employed NI.
    If you simply declare your extra self employed earnings for tax you may be eligible for JSA, declaring any income received to the Jobcentre as and when you get it.
     
  12. great advice, much appreciated...
    however wondering if i will get my dole money if i have savings of 10000 in a ISA? Which i cant get at even if i wanted too as it is fixed.
    thanks
     
  13. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    You wouldn't immediately get Income Based JSA as you have over the savings threshold. if you qualified on all other counts, they'd expect you to live on your savings until they dropped beow the threshold. An ISA can actually be accessed, even on fixed rates, but you'd lose the interest (or most of it) so not to be advised if you can avoid it.
    You eligibility is more likely to be Contibutory JSA based on your past NI record. that is unaffected by savings.

     
  14. Thanks for the advice, jubilee. It is such a minefield!
     
  15. Hi Jubilee,
    Can I ask you a question please?
    I was teaching overseas for 7.5yrs until Dec' 08 then been doing supply from Jan' 09.
    I don't have a job lined up for Sept' despite having applied to 20 jobs and having had 2 interviews.
    I will claim JSA as an "unemployed teacher" this summer and was worried about the 12 months of employment info - will they contact my 2 ex-employers in Thailand? (who will correctly say I left in April' 08, then December '08- voulantarily).
    Shall I just say I was living with mum in England for the last few years and not working? I was studying with the OU back then, so could blame my lack of UK working on that (there is no UK record of my overseas work).
    Many thanks,




     
  16. Sorry to keep picking your brains Jubilee, I'm just getting around to this (went into the job centre - ugh, what a horrible place!) and did the forms over the phone. Then it suddenly occurred to me, do I have to declare my dividends from my partner's company? I'm fairly sure he didn't ask about income from dividends, but the line was muffled & I know I had to say no to receiving income from pensions and other benefits etc. Got my meeting actually at the job centre on Wednesday to check the forms and stuff.
    Thanks!
     
  17. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    Don't worry about them contacting the overseas employers; they won't. be completely up=front about your work history. They will give you a form to fill in to establish that you are entitled to UK benefits and will have to account for where you were abroad etc.
    Don't make up a story about living with your Mum.
    You won't get JSA Contributory as you haven't paid NI in 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 so they'll assess you on Income Based JSA instead which will give you access to more financial support anyway, assuming you don't have savings over 8k.
     
  18. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    Don't worry about them contacting the overseas employers; they won't. be completely up=front about your work history. They will give you a form to fill in to establish that you are entitled to UK benefits and will have to account for where you were abroad etc.
    Don't make up a story about living with your Mum.
    You won't get JSA Contributory as you haven't paid NI in 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 so they'll assess you on Income Based JSA instead which will give you access to more financial support anyway, assuming you don't have savings over 8k.
     
  19. jubilee

    jubilee Lead commenter

    I assume that you're getting JSA Contributory and that your partner's income is irrelevant, even though they may have asked about it in the initial conversation?
    With Contributory JSA you do not have to declare any savings interest, investment income (share dividends etc). I don't know if company dividends from your partner's company is the same as share dividends. Do you get a 'cut' for work done? As long as you are not working when claiming, this may not be relevant. Could the dividends be delayed and not paid until you are back in work?
     
  20. You've set my mind at rest! It's share dividends, and although we did a dividend recently there won't be another one for a while.
    I'm not sure if I've put in enough contributions, but as you've said before, it's worth applying, so I'll find out tomorrow.
    Thanks!
     

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