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can I negotiate pay? please help

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by hollie_gardner_281294, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. hollie_gardner_281294

    hollie_gardner_281294 New commenter


    So I completed my secondary school teacher training in July and achieved QTS. I have just been offered a job at a FE college. On the advert, they said you could work towards your QTS, therefore didn't need to have QTS to apply. The pay on the advert said £19,880 - £23,192 a year dependent upon experience (so I assumed that if you didn't have QTS and were offered the job you would start on £19,880). I have just received my letter through the post stating the terms and conditions of the job and they have stated I would be starting on £19,880. I was under the assumption that I would be starting on/around £22,000 as an NQT. Could you please advise what I should do? Am I right in thinking I should be on more and that they have possibly made a mistake? I'm wary of saying anything without getting some advice first as I don't want to look bad. Thank you in advance!
  2. annascience2012

    annascience2012 New commenter

    Please do haggle! Women don't haggle on salary enough.
    If you do, don't haggle on the basis of "that's what you'd be paying someone without qts": it won't go down as well.
    Instead, do it bit more like this: Thank you for your offer. I'm very interested in working at your school but I'm hoping for a higher salary than that. With my training and skills, I could (then launch into all the extra amazing things you would do at the school, like run the DT breakfast club thanks to your experience as X, bring in outside speakers that you know from when you worked at Y, etc etc). Basically remind them of the flashier bits of your CV and reiterate how useful you would be there.
    Good luck!
    Oh and if that's your real name in your username then maybe change it, just in case!
  3. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    The wording is "dependent upon experience" rather than "dependent on qualifications and experience" which you could feasibly see in this circumstance. But actually don't.
    According to your post, you don't really have any experience (yet) so theoretically, sticking to the word of the job ad, you could have had somebody take the job as an instructor who had already been working as such for a couple of years, and they would have merited a higher rate.
    So irrespective of the above advice (which is good) you would make yourself look silly if you referred back to the job ad. They would simply say "you're wrong, please read it again".
    You are right to query it now though, instead of at your first pay packet, because you might have negotiating room before you actually start, but less so if you had already invested yourself in the place for a few weeks.
    £19K as a QTS rate is relatively pants, and they know it, so you could try to talk them out of it with some fine promises. If that doesn't work, think of it as a year gaining experience which gives you a bigger bargaining chip for your next post. You're already in a better place now than you were this time last year,well done for that.
  4. shevington

    shevington Occasional commenter

    Also make sure you join a Trade Union
  5. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    You are a science teacher - haggle, haggle, haggle - They need you far more than you need them. £22,000 PA is the minimum you should accept and make that clear to them. keep looking at the job market see what is out there, you can always work till December and go else where in Jan. look at the independent sector as well and ring round the supply agencies. If you haven't signed the contract then check with union if you can walk immediately.
    This is your first step in the job market, and they are taking the p*** it shows the contempt they have for you - you owe them nothing, They will go on to walk all over you if you let them.
    There are 47 biology jobs on the TES right now and 315 science vacancies. Many more will appear.
    Sadly this is the future in education, you are going to have to fight for everything, they won't hesitate to make you work a 60 hour week. divide your hours by the £18,000 and you won't even be on minimum wage.
  6. hollie_gardner_281294

    hollie_gardner_281294 New commenter

    Thank you so much! That makes a lot of sense. I'll draft up an email this morning and make sure I mention all of the things I can bring to the college and hopefully that will work. Part of the letter where they say what the job offer is dependent on made it sound like it was dependent on me gaining QTS, so I'm really just hoping it's a mistake.
    And I've tried to change my name but can't find a way to do so! I have emailed TES support so just waiting on them to get back to me. Hopefully will get it changed very quickly!!
    annascience2012 and agathamorse like this.
  7. hollie_gardner_281294

    hollie_gardner_281294 New commenter

    Thank you very much for your advice!! I had applied for the job thinking it would be normal QTS rate, I have recently got a mortgage and all of the bills that come with it which is why I'm stressing about the pay. I am going to have to try bargaining with fine promises like you say; hopefully that will work.
  8. thejudgesscoresarein

    thejudgesscoresarein Occasional commenter

  9. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    I was also going to add - When you originally interviewed for the post, of course you should have made it clear that you expected the higher rate of pay, equally they could have raised this at the interview. You are new to this and they have taken full advantage of your inexperience at interviewing and negotiating by making you this derisory offer.
    Sorry to have to say this but they are laughing at you behind your back, in future you will be able to make better judgments about HT's and Principles, and how they behave at interview will give you some idea of what sort of person they are. This person will be turning up to work in their flashy status car, because they will be negotiating for every penny for them selves.
    You are having to learn a tough lesson here but you will be better off in the long run if you toughen up now.
    MathMan1 and JohnJCazorla like this.
  10. thejudgesscoresarein

    thejudgesscoresarein Occasional commenter

    £19,880 is low for a teacher- £1656 before tax a month, around £1350 after deductions- you should be on at least £22k- £23k as a starter salary- so I would query this before you sign any contract, and I wouldn’t sign until you’ve got the right money! Supply teachers who work for an agency (and get consistent long term assignments)
    agathamorse likes this.
  11. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    If your username is your real name + date of birth you should get it changed asap. Email help@tes.com from the email address you registered on TES telling admin your current username and what you want it changed to and why - which we will be because your current username identifies you real name
    phlogiston and HolyMahogany like this.
  12. hollie_gardner_281294

    hollie_gardner_281294 New commenter

    I've already done this, like I said further up I'm just waiting on a reply from TES :)
  13. hollie_gardner_281294

    hollie_gardner_281294 New commenter

    Thank you for your reply - I have always been told to never mention pay in an interview as it gives the wrong impression. I've also just been told the role has 40 days annual leave, and is not the usual school holidays.
  14. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Good. Because you are being pre-moderated your post wasn't visible when I posted.
    hollie_gardner_281294 likes this.
  15. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    I think when it comes to the pay negotiation part of the process, you can decide when you want to raise this matter. I think at the end of the interview would be fine as part of the any questions, e.g. If you offer me this post what would I be earning? or if you prefer, wait until they offer you the post and then ask how much they are offering. There was a time when you simply moved across on the relevant scale, but this has changed. As to giving the wrong impression. Any HT who thinks that, is either a fool or a cheat like the one who has offered you the lower rate.
    Any HT worth working for will respect you for wanting to discuss pay and conditions during the interview process.Things have changed and you have bills to pay.
    One last point - I work as a technician now, the pay you have been offered is little more than I would be earning if my job was full time, and teaching is a lot more stressful.
  16. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    The time to bring up pay is when they show they are interested in you. Either at the end of the interview when they say would you accept this job if it is offered to you (don't just say yes as you'll be see to be forming a contract with them) or when they contact you and offer the job.

    FE colleges are not like schools as you are probably realising, in terms of pay and holidays. Usually worse on both.
  17. Laphroig

    Laphroig Lead commenter

    Pay in FE is low as the colleges do not adhere to the teacher pay scales. They want to pay as little as possible and are happy to take on unqualified, inexperienced staff to keep the budget low. Be sure FE is for you before committing and make sure you are in a union.

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