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Can an individual child make 3 APS in a year??

Discussion in 'Headteachers' started by iamthewalrus, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. I could be being really naive/stupid here, but at a recent meeting with our SIO, I was asked how many of my pupils had made 3 APS this year. I replied that x% of children made 2 APS (1 fine level) and y% made 4 APS, giving an average progress this year of 3.7ish, which I deemed to be satisfactory to good progress overall. She then said that 2 APS was inadequate, 4 APS was good, so how many pupils had made SATISFACTORY progress, ie. 3 APS. She also said that with a number of pupils making inadequate progress (2 APS) then I could not grade the progress as anything but inadequate. After lots of years in the job, I have never come across a pupil being able to make an odd number of APS in a year once they get beyond the P scales. I asked if she was expecting us to fine level a fine level, to which she replied 'don't be ridiculous!' and then said that we must move on. Am I wrong or is she? Help!!
     
  2. I could be being really naive/stupid here, but at a recent meeting with our SIO, I was asked how many of my pupils had made 3 APS this year. I replied that x% of children made 2 APS (1 fine level) and y% made 4 APS, giving an average progress this year of 3.7ish, which I deemed to be satisfactory to good progress overall. She then said that 2 APS was inadequate, 4 APS was good, so how many pupils had made SATISFACTORY progress, ie. 3 APS. She also said that with a number of pupils making inadequate progress (2 APS) then I could not grade the progress as anything but inadequate. After lots of years in the job, I have never come across a pupil being able to make an odd number of APS in a year once they get beyond the P scales. I asked if she was expecting us to fine level a fine level, to which she replied 'don't be ridiculous!' and then said that we must move on. Am I wrong or is she? Help!!
     
  3. 1 APS is supposed to represent a term isn't it? Progression Guidance is useful on progress and what can be reasonably called expected/good etc. The appendix part of Raise also has some useful extra info on progress which might help. I'm happier with sub levels' progress.
     
  4. You cannot really measure 1 aps, against a single child in one year as that would represent one half of a sub level progress, thus the child will still be at the same level at year end as year start. If a child made 1 level progress(6 points) in a year this would represent 1 point per term, likewise, you can divide a child's total points progress by any number you care to think of to get an average and make any statement against this average you care to make.
    Aps is best used to show progress of a group/cohort over a set period to give an overview of that group's progress which is a good initial diagnostic tool or presentational statement. Transilvanian gives good advice, individual sub level progress is a true indicator and a better measure of cohort/group performance. Look at the number of children making x sub level progress over a set time period, this also irons out issues related to children moving from w to 1c (4 points) which tends to skew progress comparrisons between Ks2 and ks1 when using aps and other flux problems.
    I could go on and on and on with this. As with all statistics use the those that suit your need:
    ie. diagnostic vs presentational (SDP vs Ofsted1)
     
  5. Sorry to get back to the point.
    1,3,5, 7.......are only possible as part of an average aps progress measure, as subs go up in twos!
    3 is average in KS2 as 12 points in 4 years are required to move 2 levels: eg: 2b to 4b. However, as Raise is all b's, 1b,2b,3b,4b,5b a child achieving 2a at end ks1 only needs 10 points movement to get 12 points, but the expectation is 14 to 5!!!!!
    Black arts, black arts.....
     
  6. Hi Thrupp, I use sub level progress for individual & group analysis with a simple excel colour tracker & venn diagram. The important thing for me is the dialogue with the teacher & them having ownership of their data. I don't use APS at all. Ofsted inspectors sometimes want APS but can't tell me how it tells them any more than sub levels. Can you tell me if it adds anything helpful? I'm not a statistician but analyse progress over time for year groups, vulnerable groups and individuals, Y4 1NC level etc. Thanks.
     
  7. We use sub level % like yourself that feed pupil performance meetings.
    APS is good measure of overall progress or attainment over time. Thus, this year's yr 6 are x which is good/bad compaired with years y, w, z....
    It also shows how weak/strong groups are in general. You can, for example track your FSM/sen/cla/eal/etc... and compare with other cohorts and national averages, which is very useful for ofsted. By doing some back tracking from yr6 avs, say deduct 3 points per year, you can get a good idea of any group's strengths/weakness from yr 3 up, thus it could inform a 3 year program of input to boost progress and attainment.
    Of course it links into Raise, which is very, very useful and means you can discuss this in the language universally understood by the inspecting classes.

     
  8. Thanks, will give it a go.
     
  9. You are absolutely correct. However, to measure progress just in that one year injects a number of variables into the data which start to make it unreliable. It would perhaps be even better if you gave the SIO the average figure for each of reading, writing and maths for the year and then the average figure since the beginning of Y3. This would give you a longer term profile of progress so you eliminate the variables of teaching quality, the dip that sometimes occurs in Y3 and any 'spikes' or 'depressions' that might occur in one year of data collection. Bear in mind that if you say they have made 3.7 points progress in one year if maintained year on year would equal 14.8 which is outstanding progress. However, for a class to make 3.7 points progress overall in a year isn't unusual, which sort of proves the point about the need to take the long term view.
    Your instincts are correct. This is nonsense. As another poster said, you can't make 3 points progress because 1 point=half a sub level. Average points score (APS) is a means of measuring average progress of a cohort or group of pupils. You can't make a judgement on a pupils' progress based on APS. In one year of data of course a number of pupils will make 2 points progress. The alternative is that everybody makes 4 points progress which would be stratospheric. To say that if pupils make 2 points progress equals inadequate is facile.


     
  10. If you are looking at that 2 points against a whole group, then it could be viewed as an indicator of inadequate progress, however, individual pupil data analysis should be the deal breaker, as that will show what the progress spread looks like. 4's, 6's, 2's, 0's -2's etc......
     
  11. Yes, correct because it is <u>average</u> points progress and therefore eliminates the variables which occur with looking at <u>individual</u> pupil progress.
    A school should be able to provide analyses on various levels. At cohort level, APS will provide an overview of progress. At pupil level, it should tell the story of why individual pupils have made 0/1/2 points progress over the year, how this compares with FFTD, personal issues that affect progress etc.
     
  12. thascales

    thascales New commenter

    Does anyone know of a piece of software that will use inputed APS scores to work out which children are on track and which are not, then work out the percentage of children in a year group that are on track for Level 4+, Level5, two levels progress etc in reading, writing, English and maths?
    And ideally English and Maths combined!

     
  13. Anyone know of or use a good tracker thaat works out progress since pupils been with the school - high mobility, they come they go!
     
  14. We use John Sinnott's tracker which can do all of that. Any well-put-together Excel spreadsheet could.
     

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