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Burkini

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Iftilsi, Sep 6, 2016.

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  1. Iftilsi

    Iftilsi New commenter

    Burkini


    Sir we have to fight terrorism shall we send air force to bomb isis ? no .shall we send aid to the rebels ? no shall we decrease number of immigrants ? no . what shall we do sir ? BAN BURKINI . It's part of western society who can't seem to stop objectifying women. Look around its everywhere. U get paid more to take ur clothes off, and fined for wearing more clothes.

    It's ok for Nuns to chill on the beach full clothed but not Muslim females? Absolutely disgrace! Glad to hear of this being suspended!

    Mayors do mot have the right to ban Burkinis. France’s highest administrative court ruled.
    The Council of State's ruling suspends a ban in the town of Villeneuve-Loubet, near Nice, and could affect cities around the country that have prohibited the full-length swimsuit.


    I'm fascinated to hear from those decrying this decision exactly what they would do if local authorities decided to ban an item of their clothing and engaged policemen to force them to take it off in public? Hiding behind the nonsense that the Burkini defies France's secular culture is just pathetic. There is nothing outwardly religious about it as the police proved by their own incompetence yesterday in failing to distinguish Burkinis from similar dress worn by women with no allegiance to Islam at all. The court has ruled quite correctly according to law. Let's hope that's an end to it. I am proudly a reactionary person is to defend the common good and the good of society I am in favour of Burkini in Europe

    French authorities have been criticised for imposing the ban, after photographs were published this week of police fining Muslim women wearing headscarves on beaches. It has peaked fierce debate on freedom of religion, women's rights and the integration of France's Muslim community. The ban was imposed following a series of terror attacks in France by Islamist terrorists.

    Opinion polls suggested most of the French public supported the bans, which Muslims claimed targeted them unfairly.

    John Dalhuisen, Amnesty International's Europe Director welcomed the court's decision.

    "By overturning a discriminatory ban that is fuelled by and is fuelling prejudice and intolerance, today's decision has drawn an important line in the sand," he said in a statement.

    "French authorities must now drop the pretence that these measures do anything to protect the rights of women. Rather, invasive and discriminatory measures such as these restrict women's choices and are an assault on their freedoms of expression, religion and right to non-discrimination."

    "These bans do nothing to increase public safety, but do a lot to promote public humiliation. Not only are they in themselves discriminatory, but as we have seen, the enforcement of these bans leads to abuses and the degrading treatment of Muslim women.

    A long time ago, in Europe, a Catholic woman had to cover her hair when entering a church. Also, before nuns were liberated, they had to wear habits! Very restrictive and ridiculous! The French then didn't make a big deal out of it as it was A RELIGIOUS RIGHT!

    Long before France attempted to colonise parts of Africa and the Middle East, there was a battle, in 732, at Tours, when an Islamic army, led by Abdul Rahman, tried to colonise all of France, and to force every French person to convert. The French drove them back to Spain, with much bloodshed. So, naturally, they have a reasonable amount of distrust for anything Muslim. After the battle of Tours, France was "ruled" for 1,000 years or so by the Church of Rome, and the "aristocracy", until the revolution of 1793, when the people decided that no religion or royalty would ever hold sway over the elected government. That`s it, and the laughable attempts by Islamists to justify dress codes mandated by their "prophets", is just, laughable. Thank you. Banning the Burkini by the French govt. is not the issue but telling me that France is a secular country after the banning of the Burkini is the big issue. This is hypocrisy and we know it.

    European immigrants to Australia, New Zealand, Canada or even the USA did that they took their religion, culture, language and customs with them and then forced the indigenous people to behave like them!! The French government is doing exactly what ISIS and the other terrorist groups want. They want the French government to segregate and discriminate against Muslims, to create a us and them society. Well done France, bowing to terrorism. How many attacks were carried out by French Muslim women in Burkinis?

    Women should be allowed to wear WHATEVER THEY WANT on the beach. Whether that be a bikini, a swimming costume, a skirt, leggings, a dress, pyjamas, trousers, a jacket, a coat, a jumper, a hoody, a Burkini! It's their body so should be their choice whether to strip off or cover up. The West is fast becoming very oppressive and hypocritically doing the very thing it's accusing other nations of. Whatever happened to tolerance, acceptance, equality and freedom? Leave innocent people alone. Fed up of this nonsense. I think forcing the woman to take off her clothes was wrong. A bit like forcing a Sikh to remove his turban. They should have explained the new law to her and given her a chance to leave the beach, or just face a fine. I am wondering how this law could be implemented in Australia as stinger suits and wet suits are not dissimilar to Burkinis. Will they be outlawed too?

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau defended the Burkini — an Islamic dress for swimming that covers the whole body except the face, hands, and feet — and stood for individual rights during a meeting with his ministers on Monday (22 August). He said that Canada did not like to seize personal rights and respected cultural diversity.

    While speaking to media, the Liberal Party leader addressed the controversy swirling in France over a Burkini ban and said, "We should be past tolerance in Canada". He added that the country could never think of a Burkini ban or any kind of prohibition that would affect any person's individuality.

    "In Canada, can we speak of acceptance, openness, friendship, understanding? It is about where we are going and what we are going through every day in our diverse and rich communities," he was quoted as saying by AFP.

    He also added that individual rights should be "at the top of public discourse and debate."

    Some policymakers in Quebec province of Canada had requested for the ban after 15 towns in France's southeast banned Burkinis, but Trudeau dismissed the ministers' call.

    Societies which force people to dress a certain way cannot call themselves 'democratic.' This Burkini ban claims to protect "secularism" and ban "beachwear which ostentatiously displays religious affiliation." My question: do you think someone wearing beach clothes decorated in Jewish religious themes would face the same fine and treatment? What a low hypocrite and disgusting country. No wonder why France is becoming almost a poor country and having millions of its own citizens immigrating to England, USA, Dubai, Canada seeking a better life.

    Should we start dressing down anyone wearing a nighty and a shower cap because of "national security" This isn't a law that targets criminals, or terrorists. This is a by-law that targets Muslims for not wanting to show skin. Which is ridiculous. If tomorrow in any country someone said "white people cant wear trench coats" because of the amount of American mass shooters who have worn one would be met with complete anarchy.

    There is a thousand and one other outfits from different cultures that similarly represent the Burkini. This is state sponsored racism. No one seems to have a problem with Sikhs wearing turbans and rightfully so... You see this is borderline apartheid on the grounds of "national security" and "protecting western values" when in reality it's just a way of segregating and disenfranchising those who are 'different' from us.

    They have no problems with Sikhs, Jews, Buda's etc... When it comes to Muslims, yes everybody is against them! Com on guys those are not our values, we were not raised like this, at least not in the US... We should all condemn these stupidities which divide us more than anything else and give terrorists more ground to recruit other ignorant people. This is really what the terrorists wants and the French are doing exactly what they want to segregate those Muslims and make them feel the society don't want them although those ladies weren't terrorist. This is how the terrorist wants and the French are doing exactly. Congrats and now many of those who got fined eventually will feel ashamed that society cant accept them for who they are... thus what do u think these people would do? God knows how they feel.. and just so u people know that many Muslims themselves are targets of terrorist too.

    West must learn to respect and tolerate those who are different. Discrimination against Muslim practices, such as France’s recent stance against the Burkini, can have the opposite of the intended impact. In making Muslim communities feel threatened and under siege, discriminatory policies can make the narrative of extremists that the West is at war with Islam that much more appealing.

    Muslims are not embracing western life'. What do we do? In our free time us English go down the pubs and get smashed, do the same in clubs, sleep with random people and as a result have the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe. Can anybody please tell me what integration means? other then speak English!!! The Jews did their best to integrate in Germany. They even took German names! Look how far it got them. If the Muslims try to integrate, the Germans/British will complain about the 'pollution' of their identity once again. I wonder how many English people were saying "Multi-Culturalism does not work" when they were busy invading and taking over other people's countries!? India, the Africa, the Americas, Australia, to name but a few. I wonder how many English people are saying "Multi Culturalism does not work" when they are busy sunning themselves in the south of Spain, speaking only English, eating in English restaurants, drinking in English bars, and complaining that not all Spaniards speak English!? Monkey see? Monkey do? And what is English culture, anyhow!? Our football teams are full of foreign players and some are owned by foreign owners, Christian Church attendance has dwindled, we love our curries (influenced by Indian food), we holiday abroad often...so I really would like somebody to define to me what is English culture, these days. If you mean by integration going down to the pub with the lads, getting drunk, picking up a few girls, and then on Sunday maybe going to church - then I'm sure that Muslims will not integrate.
    I A
     
  2. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    I agree with you, and as soon as all Muslim countries accept that none muslims can dress as they please then we should do the same, but until then...............................
     
  3. g2016

    g2016 New commenter

    Wanet, can we not lead by example? I'd prefer that over "an eye for an eye", personally.
     
  4. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    But we do lead by example, as a muslim friend of mine says, anyone coming here should accept the british way of life or not come.
     
    theworm123 likes this.
  5. Iftilsi

    Iftilsi New commenter

    In Muslim countries all laws, traditions and customs are based on Sharia but in western countries all laws are man made. When bikini is legal why not Burkini or Facekini, Burqa, Niqab or Hijab?

    Why not?
    For many today, French secularism is an anti-human rights ideology, a kind of moral deformity close to racism.

    How can a free country, they ask, even think of doing such a thing as trying to ban a veil or a Burkini -- the full body covering for women to wear on the beach? How, they ask, can the French Republic call itself free and remain free when many of its citizens would like to rob Muslim women, peacefully obeying their own religion, of the freedom to choose their own clothes?

    The current radicalization in France is not like that of the recent migration of Muslims to other European countries. Muslims have been coming to France in large numbers since the French left Algeria in 1962. The French never made any distinction between the French of "Gaul" and the French of North Africa. The current radicalization is not of those who came then, but of the younger generation -- of French Muslims. They were born in France, speak French, were schooled in France -- but they are not at ease with the values of France.

    For more than 25 years, the French Republic, right and left, has been trying to disentangle the country from the "Muslim textile problem" (hijab, Niqab, burka, Burkini and so on). When the problem began back in 1989, the head of Creil College expelled three Muslim girls for wearing the Muslim veil, the hijab. A strong debate followed: pro-veil vs. anti-veil. Same arguments: as usual, tolerance, freedom of choice, and freedom of religion were on one side, secularism and respect for rules on the other side.

    In June 2004, Jean-Pierre Obin, General Inspector of the National Education, gave the Minister of Education a written report, entitled, "The signs and manifestations of religious beliefs in schools of the Republic". The report was mostly about the behaviour of Muslim secondary school students. In every school where Muslims were dominant in number, according to the report, boys refused to mix with girls in the classroom and at sports. The Muslim students understandably refused non-halal food at school cafeterias, did not come to school when there were Muslim holidays, such as Eid el Kabir, Eid el Fitr, Ramadan -- and virtually all of the students displayed a virulent anti-Semitism.

    More problematic was that many of the Muslims in secondary schools began objecting to the school curriculum, according what is halal (permitted) or haram (forbidden):

    "Very frequently there is a refusal or an objection to certain kinds of literary works. Philosophers of the Age of Enlightenment, especially Voltaire and Rousseau, and all the philosophical works who submit religion to rational examination. 'Rousseau is contrary to my religion,' explained one student while leaving the class before the end. Molière and especially "Le Tartuffe" -- a satire of religious bigotry -- were the most popular targets: there was refusal to study, refusal to play, refusal to attend or else disturbances when actors were on stage. The same rejection applied to literary works that many considered licentious, (example, "Cyrano de Bergerac"), free-thinking or in favour of the freedom of women (Madame Bovary by Gustavo Flaubert). They also refuse to study authors such as Chretien de Troyes because they believe the goal of that teaching is to promote Catholicism... There is every indication that students are encouraged from the outside to distrust everything the teacher can teach them, and to distrust any food proposed to them at school's cafeteria. They are encouraged to select what they want to learn according the religious categories of halal and haram".

    In trying to teach history, the problems -- perhaps not for everyone but for many -- were worse:

    "On a general matter, everything that is connected to history of Christianity and Judaism is a matter to be contested. There are many examples, some surprising: refusal to learn about the construction of cathedrals, or to open the history book on a page where there is a reproduction of Byzantine church. They also refuse to learn about pre-Islamic religions in Egypt or the Sumerian origin of writing. Sacred history is continuously opposed to factual history. The objection becomes the norm and can escalate to radicalization when the program addresses sensitive issues such as the Crusades, the genocide of the Jews (they negate the reality of the Holocaust), Israeli-Arab wars and the Palestinian problem. In civic education, secularism is considered anti-religious".

    The Obin report was so frightening for politicians that it was buried for many months and put online as discreetly as possible on the website of the ministry of education. In an interview given to the French magazine Express in 2015 , Jean-Pierre Obin said:

    "Many of the young people are conducting a secession from the French nation. This secession expresses itself in clothes (the veil, or full Islamic dress), the requirement of halal food, and absenteeism for religious reasons. In certain schools, some students were introducing carpets for praying, or protesting noisily to have a mosque inside the school. (...) More than ten years later, we can say the situation is worse. Our education system is unable to integrate people from different origins, and this difficulty is bigger for low income families"

    What is the connection between the Burkini at the beach and Islamism at school?

    What seems to stand out is that although many of the Burkini women may, of course, just be enjoying the beach in accordance with the precepts of their religion, many others appear to be Islamist militants who want to plant Islamic markings on all levels of society. The problem, as the philosopher Catherine Kintzler writes in Marianne, is that:

    "The tolerance level is decreasing inside the country. The collective condemnation of the Burkini is so fast and so unanimous that it becomes a problem of public order... Public opinion accepts less and less a closed religious affiliation, the marking of bodies and territories, the control of values, campaigns to make preferred practices uniform on behalf of a religion, which is in reality a policy".
    IA
     
  6. Iftilsi

    Iftilsi New commenter

    Your Muslim friend is free to follow what ever he wants. There is no compulsion in Islam This is a free country and those Muslims who want Masajid, state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers, halal meat sharia laws and Muslim cemeteries should be allowed to follow their way of life.
     
  7. g2016

    g2016 New commenter

    Hmm, that's not exactly what I mean. I mean by showing that we are willing to be tolerant to them. (To be honest, that's how it was until people started focusing on burkas and burkinis.) I'd rather live in a country that promotes liberty than one that points the finger at people who are different, because of a minority who've given them a bad name.
     
  8. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    Unfortunately, being able to hide you fave like this resulted in a man hiding under this clothing and stabbing and killing someone else. So no, not tolerant. There is absolutely no reason to hide like this unless you have something to hide. Unless of course you promote the liberty to commit murder.
     
  9. CaptGrimesRetd

    CaptGrimesRetd Occasional commenter

  10. Oscillatingass

    Oscillatingass Star commenter

    I still don't get why some (probably a minority) Moslems expect other countries to change to suit their cultural expectations rather than the other way round. As has been well documented, the Moslem person's choice of clothing is a cultural rather than a religious issue but if they feel they really must wear the hijab, niqab, burkha or whatever, they have the freedom to move to a country where it is the norm.
     
    wanet likes this.
  11. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

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